Cannabis Culture in Minnesota (buy, quality of life, prices)

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ColoradoLife

1. Glenfield, using your logic our respective "votes" cancel each other out.

Bingo! And we have a winner! You finally got it!

Further, will you be so opposed when Marijuana is legalized as is inevitable? What about harder drugs?

Opposed to what? Do you actually read these posts? I don't feel strongly about legalization, just about testing. I am pretty much on the same page as Cleverfield on hard drugs, but for reasons that have to do with the social costs of hard drugs. Not that you'll actually have read this far....

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Wow, you really are dense, or have short term memory problems. If you recall, I said earlier that the money wouldn't have to go to you, it could go to your family. If you still have problems with that, just forget about the "sell" part, and say you give yourself to slavery. And I don't think it, or suicide should be acceptable, as I've been arguing throughout this thread.

As far as withdrawal from these drugs killing you, that may be true in most cases that heroin and meth withdrawal don't kill you most of the time (heroin withdrawal does rarely result in death). However, if the withdrawal is so painful and intolerable that only individuals with very strong wills can overcome it, then you can say that most addicts are slaves to the drug, and cannot choose to get off it anymore than a slave can choose not to be a slave.

Voluntary slavery is not hypothetical.

Voluntary slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now that we've established that such a practice exists, will Colorado indicate whether or not he approves? And why or why not?

[ColoradoLife]

I will maintain the position that I have the inalienable right to make decisions regarding my life and my body. This would include suicide, slavery, drug addiction and everything else you take to the logical extreme. I won't decide what is best for your life, I won't tell you what to do. I will only present information that I have learned from my experiences and studies in life. I would ask that you respect my right to do as I please as long as I respect other's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I believe that if the government has authority in one portion of your life then they also have responsibility. It falls in line with the idea that "with great power comes great responsibility."

Finally, I present the question... Do you think that it is fair that you are born into a world that you are subjected to certain laws and customs that you had no say in? And what makes you responsible for following those laws that you had no part in deciding? And why are you "forced" to stay in a world like this if you decide that your existence is unbearable (whether psychologically or physically such as in the case of the young woman with brain cancer who requested assisted suicide)?

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by ColoradoLife

I will maintain the position that I have the inalienable right to make decisions regarding my life and my body. This would include suicide, slavery, drug addiction and everything else you take to the logical extreme. I won't decide what is best for your life, I won't tell you what to do. I will only present information that I have learned from my experiences and studies in life. I would ask that you respect my right to do as I please as long as I respect other's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I believe that if the government has authority in one portion of your life then they also have responsibility. It falls in line with the idea that "with great power comes great responsibility."

Finally, I present the question... Do you think that it is fair that you are born into a world that you are subjected to certain laws and customs that you had no say in? And what makes you responsible for following those laws that you had no part in deciding? And why are you "forced" to stay in a world like this if you decide that your existence is unbearable (whether psychologically or physically such as in the case of the young woman with brain cancer who requested assisted suicide)?

Okay, at least you have some consistency, that's good. However, I don't agree that the government should allow these choices to be be made, for the simple reason that they permanently damage your freedom, and you can never get out of them. I think most reasonable people would say "If I were ever in a position where I was considering doing an addictive drug, volunteering myself into slavery, or committing suicide, I would want someone to jump in and stop me, because I must not have been in the right state of mind, as those things are permanent, and are never really good for anybody".

As for your second statement, government does have responsibility; that's why the government exists in the first place. I don't understand what point you're making with your second statement.

As far as your question, you're not forced to stay in this country. You could leave, people do all the time. Unless of course you kill yourself, volunteer yourself into slavery, or become so addicted to drugs that you don't have the will to do so.

[ColoradoLife]

I don't think you have ever been to a mental health institution. They don't "help" you in terms of improving your situation. They give you drugs, they counsel you on ways to cope and they put you out into the world on your way. It's a revolving door and it's just as effective as jail is at curbing crime. Ideally one would not choose to use drugs to cope, or be desperate enough to sell themselves into slavery or hopeless enough to commit suicide. Unfortunately the world is very apathetic and indifferent, it is far from an "ideal" place.

The second statement goes hand-in-hand with the first. An example would be jobs. If the government wants to make a law requiring that you pay them to start a business, they should be responsible for employing people. If the government takes authority over your health and well-being, they should be responsible for the cost of your medical care. These are very rough statements that could be refined, but you can gather what I believe from them.

You have to pay a fee to renounce your citizenship, around $500. If you are poor you are unable to leave the country. If you are poor you are unable to travel by viable methods. You also need to have citizenship in another country. There is no place on earth that is not owned by some government and therefore you can't just go "live off the land." You are forced to take part in this society, whether you like it or not. It's not unreasonable to think suicide should be legal if people do not wish to take part.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ColoradoLife

I will maintain the position that I have the inalienable right to make decisions regarding my life and my body. This would include suicide, slavery, drug addiction and everything else you take to the logical extreme. I won't decide what is best for your life, I won't tell you what to do. I will only present information that I have learned from my experiences and studies in life. I would ask that you respect my right to do as I please as long as I respect other's right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

I believe that if the government has authority in one portion of your life then they also have responsibility. It falls in line with the idea that "with great power comes great responsibility."

Finally, I present the question... Do you think that it is fair that you are born into a world that you are subjected to certain laws and customs that you had no say in? And what makes you responsible for following those laws that you had no part in deciding? And why are you "forced" to stay in a world like this if you decide that your existence is unbearable (whether psychologically or physically such as in the case of the young woman with brain cancer who requested assisted suicide)?

Well, if you are caught pursuing happiness by manufacturing, distributing, and ingesting methamphetamines, you will find that you will forsake liberty and spend a good part of your life in a Federal penitentiary.

These laws are neither capricious nor arbitrary, and you have plenty of opportunity to influence them. Vote, campaign, lobby your representatives, run for office.

Put down the pipe and get in the game, and you won't feel like laws are something is done to you.

[ColoradoLife]

I put down the pipe a while ago, you continue to reference people who use drugs as incapable of logical or coherent thought and that's insulting and unethical. My question was more-so referring to how I had no say in the existing laws having been born after they were put into place. What in this world binds me to follow these laws? When I joined the military I signed a contract saying I would follow all of the orders and laws of my superior officers in defense of my nation. I signed no such agreement when I was born. Do you follow?

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by ColoradoLife

I put down the pipe a while ago, you continue to reference people who use drugs as incapable of logical or coherent thought and that's insulting and unethical. My question was more-so referring to how I had no say in the existing laws having been born after they were put into place. What in this world binds me to follow these laws? When I joined the military I signed a contract saying I would follow all of the orders and laws of my superior officers in defense of my nation. I signed no such agreement when I was born. Do you follow?

Yes, but defecting is easy enough if you want it badly enough. It's not like this is Cuba or North Korea. By staying in this country, you're implicitly agreeing to conform with the laws of the land. There may not be the option of living completely independently of government, but there are many options to choose from, and I'm sure you could find one that's more to your liking.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ColoradoLife

I put down the pipe a while ago, you continue to reference people who use drugs as incapable of logical or coherent thought and that's insulting and unethical. My question was more-so referring to how I had no say in the existing laws having been born after they were put into place. What in this world binds me to follow these laws? When I joined the military I signed a contract saying I would follow all of the orders and laws of my superior officers in defense of my nation. I signed no such agreement when I was born. Do you follow?

Well, that's an interesting question. I follow you though I can really relate. I guess I always felt a part of society and didn't feel unfairly bound by any of its restrictions. I suppose you could always work to repeal laws but I realize that doesn't get to your question.


I guess people who felt like you do used to go off to the frontier, but that's not exactly an option. We can't reebact laws every year and ask everyone that year what they'd like their rules to be. And you could alwAys just ignore the laws but then you risk the consequences. So I don't have a good solution for you.

This has to be about more than dope though, right?

[ColoradoLife]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

This has to be about more than dope though, right?

Much more than drugs. The fact that people are forced to take part in society whether they want to or not is the reason I support suicide. If people don't want to be a part of this life they should be allowed to "move on" to another. If we can't change the "rules", why force others to adhere to it? If popular ideologies like yours and Cleverfield become law over me, why can't I opt out? It seems reasonable to give someone an option because the society we live in now feels like slavery in a way. You can't live anywhere without fiat currency and you have to work in order to earn money. If life isn't enjoyable enough to work for money in order to pay your way to live and nobody is willing to help improve that due to our "independent" western ideologies then why would society force that person who cannot "fit in" to live? I don't mean to go off on a tangent but I'm very adamant about a person's right to choose their own path.