Mall of America vs Nicollet Mall

[daboywonder2002]

nicollet mall is HORRIBLE. thats not even a mall. they have macys, target, saks fifth avenue. its not even worth it. i dont know why they dont build a mall in minneapolis

[rzzzz]

There are malls downtown. Or perhaps it is more accurate to say there were malls downtown. City Center, Gavidae, even Block E. They just all failed. Back in the early 1990s Gavidae and City Center were pretty good, so was the downtown Dayton's.

The rallying cry of critics against Block e was that the project only recreated what was already available in the suburbs. A review of the current roster of tenants shows that criticism is true. Sure, Crown Theatres could have built its first Minnesota location among the many other movie venues in the suburbs. Or the 25,000-square-foot Borders Books & Music could have added a location in another suburban power center. Sega and Universal’s 34,000-square-foot GameWorks, a high-tech establishment with black-light bowling and a variety of advanced interactive games, would fit in any well-populated area.

“So what?” McCaffery asks. “I find no harm in repeating what is in the suburbs in an urban context.”

I guess that didn't work out so well...

Heartland Real Estate Business

[Yosh01]

Personally, downtown lost its shopping and browsing appeal with the advent of the skyway system. The skyways may be a winter time boon to downtown workers, but they've destroyed any street level commercial activity. To me, downtown is little more than a very large mall, but confusing and maze-like.

[Glenfield]

The shoppers downtown 20 years ago were primarily office workers shopping on their lunch hours. Downtown stopped being a metro wide shopping magnet in the 50s and 60s across the country. As the workplace changed, lunch hours turned into lunch minutes spent eating at your desk and that was pretty much the end of clothing and general retailing downtown.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Yosh01

Personally, downtown lost its shopping and browsing appeal with the advent of the skyway system. The skyways may be a winter time boon to downtown workers, but they've destroyed any street level commercial activity. To me, downtown is little more than a very large mall, but confusing and maze-like.

The skyway system is over 50 years old.

[Steve Bowen]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

The shoppers downtown 20 years ago were primarily office workers shopping on their lunch hours. Downtown stopped being a metro wide shopping magnet in the 50s and 60s across the country. As the workplace changed, lunch hours turned into lunch minutes spent eating at your desk and that was pretty much the end of clothing and general retailing downtown.

It seems like the implicit assumption of this thread is that a vibrant downtown with diverse and unique retail is common in major American cities, and that Minneapolis has failed because it doesn't have that. While obviously there is a lot of room for improvement, I think you can count the number of major cities in the US that have a vibrant downtown with diverse and unique retail on two hands.

[Mplsite]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

Shopping at malls and strip malls is more easy and efficient than shopping in a downtown retail stores and main street shops so its not really a fair battle.

More easy and efficient? I can reach several times more destinations by foot, bike, or public transit faster than anyone can in a sprawling suburb.

As for the OP, try and find a spot at Brit's or the Local in a Friday night: they're packed. Nicollet Mall is a restaurant and bar destination and that's what's working now. As mentioned before, there just aren't enough small, more affordable spaces: too many large spaces dominate leaving only a fraction of how many places there should be. Some lifestyle centers are more successful in providing dense walkable urban streets than Nicollet Mall. The upcoming makeover will do nothing to address that or reckless drivers speeding on every crossing street.

[Minnesota Spring]

Originally Posted by Mplsite

More easy and efficient? I can reach several times more destinations by foot, bike, or public transit faster than anyone can in a sprawling suburb.

As for the OP, try and find a spot at Brit's or the Local in a Friday night: they're packed. Nicollet Mall is a restaurant and bar destination and that's what's working now. As mentioned before, there just aren't enough small, more affordable spaces: too many large spaces dominate leaving only a fraction of how many places there should be. Some lifestyle centers are more successful in providing dense walkable urban streets than Nicollet Mall. The upcoming makeover will do nothing to address that or reckless drivers speeding on every crossing street.

To be fair, the idea of reckless drivers speeding on every street crossing applies even more to Manhattan based on my experience, yet they have no shortage of retail in Midtown. Crossing the streets in Downtown Minneapolis are a cake walk compared to Manhattan.

[urbanologist]

Originally Posted by Mplsite

More easy and efficient? I can reach several times more destinations by foot, bike, or public transit faster than anyone can in a sprawling suburb.

As for the OP, try and find a spot at Brit's or the Local in a Friday night: they're packed. Nicollet Mall is a restaurant and bar destination and that's what's working now. As mentioned before, there just aren't enough small, more affordable spaces: too many large spaces dominate leaving only a fraction of how many places there should be. Some lifestyle centers are more successful in providing dense walkable urban streets than Nicollet Mall. The upcoming makeover will do nothing to address that or reckless drivers speeding on every crossing street.

At street level around Indy's Circle Centre it's been pretty vibrant as you can see here. The vacancy of Nordstrom has been filled. Inside these buildings on the left you have an atrium that runs down the center connected by skywalks for shoppers to have an option to shop inside rather if it's -5 below or raining outside.
I know skywalks can give any city an advantage when it comes to rough weather to keep the vibrancy inside.
The IDS center the largest inside area to shop along Nicollete?

Source:http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KJNjCR8wr8...-centre-01.jpg
Here you can see the skylight covered atrium running down Circle Centre. How much inside area do shoppers have when it comes to staying out of the bad weather for Nicollete? After my trip to NYC I think it would be pretty cool if they could cover the entire side of the parking garage on the left with flashing electronic video screens and billboards like you see in Times Square.

Source:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...rcleCentre.jpg
Inside below the skylight. The design was inspired by Cleveland's Arcade (nation's first enclosed urban mall)

Source:http://math.iupui.edu/~indyasa/jsm/I...rclecenter.jpg

In summary, I would like to see downtown retail pull strong. I am a very strong proponent for bringing the crowds from all over the city to a vibrant downtown. Nicollete Mall has plenty of potential to come back even stronger. I believe utilizing both the perimeter street level and inside the buildings on an entire block is key. Right now Chicago, Minneapolis, Indy and Cleveland are the most vibrant downtowns in the entire Midwest. I think we can learn a lot from each other.