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Old 11-13-2015, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Saint Paul, MN
1,365 posts, read 1,879,296 times
Reputation: 2987

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain-Blue-Lightning View Post
I am so sick of this PC/MN correct tirade. How is it disrespectful to ask somebody where they’re from? I ask people all the time and you know what, not one of them looked at me in disbelief, and if they did, who cares!! All of theses small town simpletons>future hipsters from Iowa and North Dakota move to "what they" consider the "Big" city. Try so hard to recreate their small town persona into big city ideologies by being accepting and caring to immigrants. Who cares! They are here and you are to- learn to talk to strangers!
We as a society have gotten to the point where pretty much everyone knows you can't just go up and touch a black person's hair. It is no longer acceptable to ask someone "what are you?" in reference to their racial/ethnic/cultural heritage. This is in the same category. It is just not okay to indulge your own idle curiosity about the "exotic" at the expense of reinforcing your target's outsider status.

Even without the cultural component, you are just straight up not entitled to personal information from a complete stranger. Would you ask the person at the next table over to explain their fertility/family planning decisions to you? Would you question why they do their hair that way, how much money they make, or whether they are happy in their marriage? Intrusive questions about national origin fall into this category, too.

I don't think there is any ill will here. I believe that the people who ask this question are genuinely curious about other cultures. But my curiosity is my own concern. It is not the individual minority's responsibility to educate and inform the masses. If I want to learn about other cultures I can take it upon myself to do so rather than expecting some random stranger to do the work for me. And one encounter may not seem like a big deal to you, but imagine a world where everyone feels entitled to question you about your heritage any time you step out of the house. Sound a lot less friendly and a lot more uncomfortable now?

I used to do this myself until I was called on it. This led me to reexamine my own sense of entitlement. My flippant curiosity is not worth making someone else feel annoyed or unwelcome or accosted or uneasy or exoticized. The fact that this or that random stranger is from Eritrea as opposed to Sudan or Ethiopia is a categorization that has no bearing on my life and I am bound to not even think about 10 minutes later. But for the immigrant, the encounter yet another daily/hourly/minutely reminder that they are an outsider who will never fully appear to belong.
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: West of Wonder
2 posts, read 2,086 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by StPaulGal View Post
We as a society have gotten to the point where pretty much everyone knows you can't just go up and touch a black person's hair. It is no longer acceptable to ask someone "what are you?" in reference to their racial/ethnic/cultural heritage. This is in the same category. It is just not okay to indulge your own idle curiosity about the "exotic" at the expense of reinforcing your target's outsider status.

Even without the cultural component, you are just straight up not entitled to personal information from a complete stranger. Would you ask the person at the next table over to explain their fertility/family planning decisions to you? Would you question why they do their hair that way, how much money they make, or whether they are happy in their marriage? Intrusive questions about national origin fall into this category, too.

I don't think there is any ill will here. I believe that the people who ask this question are genuinely curious about other cultures. But my curiosity is my own concern. It is not the individual minority's responsibility to educate and inform the masses. If I want to learn about other cultures I can take it upon myself to do so rather than expecting some random stranger to do the work for me. And one encounter may not seem like a big deal to you, but imagine a world where everyone feels entitled to question you about your heritage any time you step out of the house. Sound a lot less friendly and a lot more uncomfortable now?

I used to do this myself until I was called on it. This led me to reexamine my own sense of entitlement. My flippant curiosity is not worth making someone else feel annoyed or unwelcome or accosted or uneasy or exoticized. The fact that this or that random stranger is from Eritrea as opposed to Sudan or Ethiopia is a categorization that has no bearing on my life and I am bound to not even think about 10 minutes later. But for the immigrant, the encounter yet another daily/hourly/minutely reminder that they are an outsider who will never fully appear to belong.

Thank you for making my point in my last post.
For some reason you think asking a simple question is related to some high level strategic planning in Sociology and Psychology. Relax!
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Old 11-13-2015, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Saint Paul, MN
1,365 posts, read 1,879,296 times
Reputation: 2987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain-Blue-Lightning View Post
Thank you for making my point in my last post.
For some reason you think asking a simple question is related to some high level strategic planning in Sociology and Psychology. Relax!
I don't think that at all. In fact, I think it indicates a lack of "high level strategic planning in Sociology and Psychology."

Would you ask a stranger with burn scars all over their body "what happened to you?" Would you ask a white stranger with a non-white child if they are the "real parent" or if they adopted? Would you ask a bald woman if she is doing chemo or just likes to shave her head? I sure wouldn't. Because that would be rude.

Or how about this: you encounter a stranger with a stutter. Do you question them about it, pointing out how their way of expressing themselves is not standard? Or do you leave them the heck alone?
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Old 11-13-2015, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Southwest Minneapolis
520 posts, read 773,557 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by StPaulGal View Post
We as a society have gotten to the point where pretty much everyone knows you can't just go up and touch a black person's hair. It is no longer acceptable to ask someone "what are you?" in reference to their racial/ethnic/cultural heritage. This is in the same category. It is just not okay to indulge your own idle curiosity about the "exotic" at the expense of reinforcing your target's outsider status.

Even without the cultural component, you are just straight up not entitled to personal information from a complete stranger. Would you ask the person at the next table over to explain their fertility/family planning decisions to you? Would you question why they do their hair that way, how much money they make, or whether they are happy in their marriage? Intrusive questions about national origin fall into this category, too.

I don't think there is any ill will here. I believe that the people who ask this question are genuinely curious about other cultures. But my curiosity is my own concern. It is not the individual minority's responsibility to educate and inform the masses. If I want to learn about other cultures I can take it upon myself to do so rather than expecting some random stranger to do the work for me. And one encounter may not seem like a big deal to you, but imagine a world where everyone feels entitled to question you about your heritage any time you step out of the house. Sound a lot less friendly and a lot more uncomfortable now?

I used to do this myself until I was called on it. This led me to reexamine my own sense of entitlement. My flippant curiosity is not worth making someone else feel annoyed or unwelcome or accosted or uneasy or exoticized. The fact that this or that random stranger is from Eritrea as opposed to Sudan or Ethiopia is a categorization that has no bearing on my life and I am bound to not even think about 10 minutes later. But for the immigrant, the encounter yet another daily/hourly/minutely reminder that they are an outsider who will never fully appear to belong.
Yeah, it drives me crazy when people politely engage me and express an interest in who I am and where I come from.

If we want people to feel included, we need to make sure that we don't talk to them. If we are forced to interact, we need to make sure that the conversation is cold and impersonal, so we don't offend anyone.

This post underscores why the future for an increasingly diverse MSP Metro is bleak. Many people seem to think that you can connect cultures by having PC peeing contests to see who can score the most white guilt points per sentence.

Honest and open exchanges are a bridge to somewhere. The condescending soft racism that is embedded in the mindset of many Minnesotans will get us nowhere.
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Old 11-13-2015, 02:34 PM
 
11 posts, read 26,582 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain-Blue-Lightning View Post
...All of theses small town simpletons>future hipsters from Iowa and North Dakota move to "what they" consider the "Big" city. Try so hard to recreate their small town persona into big city ideologies...
Quote:
Originally Posted by StPaulGal View Post
everything she said
Thank you chain Blue. Thank you!

And I suppose StPaulGal thinks she is the open minded one...

*sigh*

You see StPaulGal, inquiring into someones heritage shows interest, which is in turn a sign of friendliness, and wanting to be an informed person. Going to the library or google and researching another culture is no replacement for the experience of introducing yourself to a stranger and making a new friend. I have never met anyone from a foreign country who did not show interest in talking about where they are from. I am usually thanked for "showing interest and being friendly".

If you really were called out for it, my guess is that your approach was probably quite rude, offensive, or downright degrading.
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Old 11-13-2015, 04:07 PM
 
340 posts, read 607,645 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by StPaulGal View Post
We as a society have gotten to the point where pretty much everyone knows you can't just go up and touch a black person's hair. It is no longer acceptable to ask someone "what are you?" in reference to their racial/ethnic/cultural heritage. This is in the same category. It is just not okay to indulge your own idle curiosity about the "exotic" at the expense of reinforcing your target's outsider status.

Even without the cultural component, you are just straight up not entitled to personal information from a complete stranger. Would you ask the person at the next table over to explain their fertility/family planning decisions to you? Would you question why they do their hair that way, how much money they make, or whether they are happy in their marriage? Intrusive questions about national origin fall into this category, too.

I don't think there is any ill will here. I believe that the people who ask this question are genuinely curious about other cultures. But my curiosity is my own concern. It is not the individual minority's responsibility to educate and inform the masses. If I want to learn about other cultures I can take it upon myself to do so rather than expecting some random stranger to do the work for me. And one encounter may not seem like a big deal to you, but imagine a world where everyone feels entitled to question you about your heritage any time you step out of the house. Sound a lot less friendly and a lot more uncomfortable now?

I used to do this myself until I was called on it. This led me to reexamine my own sense of entitlement. My flippant curiosity is not worth making someone else feel annoyed or unwelcome or accosted or uneasy or exoticized. The fact that this or that random stranger is from Eritrea as opposed to Sudan or Ethiopia is a categorization that has no bearing on my life and I am bound to not even think about 10 minutes later. But for the immigrant, the encounter yet another daily/hourly/minutely reminder that they are an outsider who will never fully appear to belong.
Great post, and I for one totally agree with you - and it has NOTHING to do with being "MN nice" either. In fact, I really don't care for "MN nice" behavior. On the contrary, I think it is a prime example of just how INSULAR many Minnesotans are that they actually think it is okay to approach someone at another table because they think their accent is cool or whatever. I mean, can you imagine locals in cities with such diverse populations as London or New York engaging in such completely provincial behavior?! I certainly can't! It is flat out RUDE! It is treating people as if they are just some idle curiosity - instead of actual human beings! Now, that said, I think there are times when you are already engaged in conversation with someone that it is perfectly acceptable to nicely ask where they are from - but to actually approach someone just to satisfy your own curiosity... ugh... I mean, I guess if you really want to make yourself look like some ignorant midwestern hick...
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Old 11-13-2015, 04:17 PM
 
340 posts, read 607,645 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chain-Blue-Lightning View Post
I am so sick of this PC/MN correct tirade. How is it disrespectful to ask somebody where they’re from? I ask people all the time and you know what, not one of them looked at me in disbelief, and if they did, who cares!! All of theses small town simpletons>future hipsters from Iowa and North Dakota move to "what they" consider the "Big" city. Try so hard to recreate their small town persona into big city ideologies by being accepting and caring to immigrants. Who cares! They are here and you are to- learn to talk to strangers!
Oh my goodness!!! It has NOTHING to do with being "PC"! And going up to strangers just so you can ask about their interesting accent, however nice your approach, is NOT an example of being "accepting and caring to immigrants"! AT ALL!
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Old 11-13-2015, 04:25 PM
 
340 posts, read 607,645 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvold View Post
Thanks chain Blue. Thank you!

And I suppose StPaulGal thinks she is the open minded one...

*sigh*

You see StPaulGal, inquiring into someones heritage shows interest, which is in turn a sign of friendliness, and wanting to be an informed person. Going to the library or google and researching another culture is no replacement for the experience of introducing yourself to a stranger and making a new friend. I have never met anyone from a foreign country who did not show interest in talking about where they are from. I am usually thanked for "showing interest and being friendly".

If you really were called out for it, my guess is that your approach was probably quite rude, offensive, or downright degrading.
ACTUALLY, "inquiring into someone's heritage" in the manner in which the OP was asking about is not "a sign of friendliness", it is instead, sticking your nose where it doesn't belong! Get a clue.
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Old 11-13-2015, 05:08 PM
 
11 posts, read 26,582 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by unnativeelpasoan View Post
can you imagine locals in cities with such diverse populations as London or New York engaging in such completely provincial behavior?! I certainly can't! It is flat out RUDE! It is treating people as if they are just some idle curiosity - instead of actual human beings!
I like how you assign yourself the role of spokesperson for people from New York and London, and foreigners in general. And btw, they probably don't do that as much for far different reasons.

Showing interest in someone is treating them like a human being...

Quote:
Originally Posted by unnativeelpasoan View Post
Oh my goodness!!! It has NOTHING to do with being "PC"! And going up to strangers just so you can ask about their interesting accent, however nice your approach, is NOT an example of being "accepting and caring to immigrants"! AT ALL!
Wrong. It is being caring, as stated above, it shows interest and friendliness. See I know this, because I do it all the time. Now I should add, I don't bumble up and rudely interrupt as you seem to suggest it is being done. There is a time and place for everything. Of all the times I have done it, and it is beyond count. I have NEVER had anyone find it rude. I have ALWAYS been given a smile, a good conversation, a "thank you" for showing interest and friendliness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unnativeelpasoan View Post
ACTUALLY, "inquiring into someone's heritage" in the manner in which the OP was asking about is not "a sign of friendliness", it is instead, sticking your nose where it doesn't belong! Get a clue.
Get a clue about what? Being exclusive and unwelcoming?
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Old 11-13-2015, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
23,769 posts, read 28,954,736 times
Reputation: 37326
MYOB and don't act like a backwards rube
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