Twin Cities vs. Chicago on "Opportunity"

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Minnesota didn't have slavery?? Is that your defense? Lol

Heh. No. But it does explain why MN has fewer black residents than places like GA. Most of the black families that have lived in GA for more than a few decades didn't exactly choose to be here. And more recently, many black families are coming back to GA from places like Chicago and NY because they want to live where their families lived in the past. They have family history here.

BTW, I'm not making that up. I have multiple friends and cow orkers here who have told me that their family was "coming back to GA", so for some it's an actual reason.

[treemoni]

Once again, Google. This is not something I've made up (MN having difficulty retaining black talent). I have to keep reminding myself that these things are hard for some of you to understand because you don't have to deal with it. The essence of privilege.

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Originally Posted by treemoni

If Minnesota has all these great programs like open enrollment, why is there such a huge disparity in education? I mean, the schools are so great. Why can't Minnesota retain the black talent that comes? Why do these people leave your state? It's not just the weather. FWIW, a huge percent of your black population is not from MN, so in that way it's not unlike Atlanta and DC.

MN has a problem and her residents don't want to acknowledge it.

The majority of the black population in the Twin Cities are African immigrants and people who have relocated from destitute inner-cities from the Midwest. If they're not progressive and middle class it's perhaps because they never were, not because of presumed institutional racism (at least not any more so than the rest of the US).

Also, the Twin Cities continue to see among the fastest growing black population in the Midwest/North, so for every person that leaves a dozen take their place.

I am a big proponent of providing opportunities for people to thrive, and I think the Twin Cities (and the rest of the US) should invest in their neediest people, but its not something at all unique to MN, like you suggest. But of course, there's always room for improvement.

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Once again, Google. This is not something I've made up (MN having difficulty retaining black talent). I have to keep reminding myself that these things are hard for some of you to understand because you don't have to deal with it. The essence of privilege.

You're not even trying to have a rational discussion....when you're ready to stop your temper tantrum and act like a big boy you can return to the table.

[mr roboto]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Once again, Google. This is not something I've made up (MN having difficulty retaining black talent). I have to keep reminding myself that these things are hard for some of you to understand because you don't have to deal with it. The essence of privilege.

Stop with your coy act, honestly. 'Privilege' is the new trump card which is designed to shut down any objection. We are apparently so privileged that we are what, completely incapable of understanding anothers' perspective?

I'm sure you have a decent point but you apparently are unwilling to make it in a respectful thoughtful way. Here's what I've gathered so far...
1. You don't think the TCs are progressive at all (despite statistics, policy and data cited to the contrary.
2. Your opinion (1) is seemingly based almost entirely on one major metric - black/white acheivement gap.
3. You believe that anyone who disagrees with, or even challenges or wants more information about (1) is a privileged white with their head in the sand
4. I get the sense you've personally been the victim of some sort of racial prejudice here in MN
5. I also get the sense that you are extrapolating (4) and (3) into a hugely unsubstantiated belief in (1)

No one disagrees with the fact that MN has an embarrassingly large gap in acheivement and educational attainment. People do (rightly so) disagree that this is the sole metric for determining whether an area is progressive or not (contrary to your point (2) above).

Are you willing to admit any of the following?

A. 'Progressive' is not solely confined to racial equality
B. Minnesota does have very progressive policies and cultural values.
C. Someone challenging your opinion or asking for clarification doesn't mean that they disagree or that they are sticking their head in the sand
D. Not all Minnesotans are exactly the same

I really feel genuinely bad that you are so personally hurt by whatever experience you had. Truly. But it's completely clouding your ability to bring constructive points and is honestly hurtful in your cause to get anyone to understand what valid points you may be making.

[MickeyDickey]

Lol at how everyone has forgotten about the OP's question about opportunities in the cities vs Chicago

[FierySun]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Who says MN can't retain black talent? Do you have statistics?

There is obviously a problem regarding local education in certain communities, from that stats I've seen, but all I can see are the numbers. I have no idea how to solve the issue that certain groups of people, on average, might have with education, since I am a software developer and not a sociologist.

Some of it is systemic, I'm sure. Some of it may be cultural. I don't know. Single parent households are often problematic because of a lack of support at home. Are those more prevalent?

What do the numbers tell you? Are places like Atlanta, or Chicago (to put this more on topic) any better?

Are those people leaving MN? If so, where are they going? What is their reasoning?

Well... OPINION | Are the Twin Cities losing Black professionals due to lacking social scene? - Twin Cities Daily PlanetTwin Cities Daily Planet

Also here's a earlier CD thread discussing the topic from a few years ago which quite frankly none of the posters here should be proud of. //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...ause-they.html

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

I'm still not sure who's responsible for bringing in professional minorities, besides themselves. It's not like stocking a lake with walleye, or something. People have to grow up in the area and want to stay if/when they become more successful, and invest in things catered toward them and people like them. This is how it happens everywhere else, for the most part. The big difference here (MN) is that the minority population, and especially the black population, is relatively new to the region. There aren't as many multi-generational black families here as there are in say, St. Louis, Cleveland or Chicago. Case in point: the Twin Cities have a similar black/African American population as Columbus, OH or Kansas City, MO, yet those cities have an established black middle class and aren't considered "anti-black" or regressive cities.

So aside from my earlier recommendation to provide the opportunities for all people to thrive (especially those most in need), I think the answer is just giving it time -- time for people to get settled and put down roots, and time for people to integrate and adjust to things they're not used to.

[Minnesota Spring]

Originally Posted by FierySun

Well... OPINION | Are the Twin Cities losing Black professionals due to lacking social scene? - Twin Cities Daily PlanetTwin Cities Daily Planet

Also here's a earlier CD thread discussing the topic from a few years ago which quite frankly none of the posters here should be proud of. //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...ause-they.html

Well that explains part of the racial income disparities - if many of the black professionals, who generally earn higher incomes, are leaving the area. I agree, there is not a lot of activities that cater specifically to black professionals in the Twin Cities.
To be sure, my friends who are black professionals in the Twin Cities seem content with hanging out with us white and Asian people - would they prefer to have activities that cater specifically to people of their race? I'm not sure, but will definitely ask some of them this weekend. If that is the case, maybe the State should work on attracting venues that cater to black professionals since their working on trying to close the income gap. Just a thought.

[treemoni]

I'm not having a tantrum. People move where there are jobs (e.g. the Great Migration). Minnesota has a ton of jobs. People moved from the warm south to the cold north for jobs. MN being cold will not keep someone from a job. The fact that the employment gap is so huge here points to a larger problem. Anywho...I'm beating a dead horse now. Time to move on.