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Lol Who told you that UPTOWN is the ghetto? Was it like 15-20 years ago? Cuz back then, it was really seedy. Now, it has completely transformed itself.
Well, the part near Uptown might be decent, but isn't the rest of Lake Street as you head East rather seedy? I haven't lived in the Twin Cities for over ten years, so perhaps it's been gentrified or perhaps my recollection is inaccurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minneapolitan
Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn The white areas in the suburbs are pretty safe. The black areas in the city, of course, will be dangerous. . .
I don't mean to start a fight, but don't you find that statement at least a LITTLE bit racist? Because it is completely offensive to me (as a caucasian).
I'd prefer to think of that statement as being less about racism and more about empirical data. I fully acknowledge that there are many very intelligent, hard working, moral black people (I have known them) who can put me to shame and many very scummy, immoral, despicable white people (I have met them, too). I would much prefer to live in a neighborhood composed of middle class college-educated black people than a neighborhood composed of scuzzy impoverished whites with fourth-grade reading levels, really.
It's just conjecture on my part, but I suspect that if we delved into the criminal stats, we'd find that Minneapolis and, say, Brooklyn Park tend to have more crime than the suburbs. Let me put it to you this way. Would you, personally, want to buy a house and move your family into North Minneapolis (say, on the west side of the Mississippi near Broadway) and would you worry about your children if they were attending the local public schools? How about Brooklyn Park? How about the City of Detroit? (If you have a sense of self-preservation, you would respond with an emphatic "no" to living in the City of Detroit.)
I would try to avoid living in a predominantly or heavily black neighborhood if I could afford it and I wouldn't feel badly nor guilty about it nor regard myself as being a racist. I suspect that many black people share that very same sentiment (such as the ones fleeing the City of Detroit). At some point we have to acknowledge reality and general empirical trends even if we don't like it and even if the facts clash with our explicitly-held, high-brow ideals. Call it racism if you wish, but to me it's just an issue of self-preservation based on my observations of empirical data having grown up in the metro Detroit area. (Like I said, show me the neighborhood composed of middle class college-educated blacks and show me the neighborhood composed of scuzzy impoverished whites with fourth grade reading levels and if I have to choose between the two I'll choose the black neighborhood.)
Last edited by Bhaalspawn; 02-24-2008 at 11:44 PM..
Well, the part near Uptown might be decent, but isn't the rest of Lake Street as you head East rather seedy? I haven't lived in the Twin Cities for over ten years, so perhaps it's been gentrified or perhaps my recollection is inaccurate.
I'd prefer to think of that statement as being less about racism and more about empirical data. I fully acknowledge that there are many very intelligent, hard working, moral black people (I have known them) who can put me to shame and many very scummy, immoral, despicable white people (I have met them, too). I would much prefer to live in a neighborhood composed of middle class college-educated black people than a neighborhood composed of scuzzy impoverished whites with fourth-grade reading levels, really.
It's just conjecture on my part, but I suspect that if we delved into the criminal stats, we'd find that Minneapolis and, say, Brooklyn Park tend to have more crime than the suburbs. Let me put it to you this way. Would you, personally, want to buy a house and move your family into North Minneapolis (say, on the west side of the Mississippi near Broadway) and would you worry about your children if they were attending the local public schools? How about Brooklyn Park? How about the City of Detroit? (If you have a sense of self-preservation, you would respond with an emphatic "no" to living in the City of Detroit.)
I would try to avoid living in a predominantly or heavily black neighborhood if I could afford it and I wouldn't feel badly nor guilty about it nor regard myself as being a racist. I suspect that many black people share that very same sentiment (such as the ones fleeing the City of Detroit). At some point we have to acknowledge reality and general empirical trends even if we don't like it and even if the facts clash with our explicitly-held, high-brow ideals. Call it racism if you wish, but to me it's just an issue of self-preservation based on my observations of empirical data having grown up in the metro Detroit area. (Like I said, show me the neighborhood composed of middle class college-educated blacks and show me the neighborhood composed of scuzzy impoverished whites with fourth grade reading levels and if I have to choose between the two I'll choose the black neighborhood.)
East Lake Street isn't as bad as it was 10 years ago. With all the new businesses, hotels, and new condo/apt. (Midtown Exchange, Sheraton) development, you might not recognize it on a socioeconomic level anymore...
On the race issue...If I were to move my family into a neighborhood, the race make-up would have nothing to do with my decision. I would strictly only look at crime stats, period. If a dangerous neighborhood happens to have a lot of blacks in it, then so be it. But my decision still would be based on crime and crime alone.
And to answer your question of whether I would move my family into North MPLS, Brooklyn Park, or even Detroit, I say this...If in, say, 5 years absolutely NOTHING except the crime rate changes for the better in any of the aforementioned neighborhoods/cities, even with the exact SAME racial make-up they have today, then I would definetely consider being their next-door neighbors. Again, it's the crime that worries me, not the racial make-up.
Your attitude and perspective on the issue is the same mentality that many whites have in the Detriot area (and many other cities in the nation). It's rather unfortunate, IMO, because the ultimate victim was the once beautiful and almighty City of Detroit (Bigger and more powerful than even Chicago in its heyday, I'm sure you know) that was brought down by the unwarranted, ignorant, fear-based phenomenon known as white flight.
Your attitude and perspective on the issue is the same mentality that many whites have in the Detriot area (and many other cities in the nation). It's rather unfortunate, IMO, because the ultimate victim was the once beautiful and almighty City of Detroit (Bigger and more powerful than even Chicago in its heyday, I'm sure you know) that was brought down by the unwarranted, ignorant, fear-based phenomenon known as white flight.
I suspect that if we could talk to the folks who were fleeing the city, they might have had substantive reasons for wanting to leave the city (tax issues and the money's being spent in other neighborhoods, trans-district busing of their children to dangerous neighborhoods with lesser schools, perhaps increasing crime, etc.). These sorts of things happen for reasons and often good reasons. I suspect that it wasn't as simple as, "There are black people just two miles from here, I'm so scared, Ethel, let's get out of here!" It's also possible that some folks just wanted newer homes and the space to build them was out in the evil suburbs.
I suspect that if we could talk to the folks who were fleeing the city, they might have had substantive reasons for wanting to leave the city (tax issues and the money's being spent in other neighborhoods, trans-district busing of their children to dangerous neighborhoods with lesser schools, perhaps increasing crime, etc.). These sorts of things happen for reasons and often good reasons. I suspect that it wasn't as simple as, "There are black people just two miles from here, I'm so scared, Ethel, let's get out of here!" It's also possible that some folks just wanted newer homes and the space to build them was out in the evil suburbs.
The social experts didn't dub what happened specifically to Detroit, White Flight, for no good reason.
I don't mean to start a fight, but don't you find that statement at least a LITTLE bit racist? Because it is completely offensive to me (as a caucasian).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minneapolitan
On the race issue...If I were to move my family into a neighborhood, the race make-up would have nothing to do with my decision. I would strictly only look at crime stats, period. If a dangerous neighborhood happens to have a lot of blacks in it, then so be it. But my decision still would be based on crime and crime alone.
Can you name some cities where the highest crime area of town is not also the majority black area of town? If you can do that, then you might be able to call the statement racist.
Comparing crime stats to demographic stats for almost any major metro area usually brings the same result.
Years ago, when I came to the Twin Cities from the Detroit area, while driving down Lake Street, I said to myself:
"This is the bad part of town? They call this the ghetto? Compared to Detroit this city doesn't have a ghetto!"
No way! I've been saying the same thing to myself for the past six months. On Lake Street (east of 35W) and North (near Dowling and I-94), specifically.
You're so right - compared to Detroit (and a lot of cities), Minneapolis doesn't have a ghetto.
What Minneapolis has are typical areas of urban blight that every large city has. And blight does not always equal crime. Sometimes, sure, but not always.
people say Dowling and 94 are bad? I always heard people use it as a qualifying statement like "I live over north but its north of Dowling" but never really heard anyone speak horribly of it.
ive studied Minneapolis crime and it really isnt anything at all. All of your "hoods" are suburban neighborhoods and you have no projects in the whole city.
45 homicides a year is LOW and compare it to any metro area and its nothing....the only people who think Minneapolis is "hard" or "bad" or "ghetto" are the white suburbanites living in nice neighborhoods 15 min from the city and thinking just because there is alittle crime that their city is like Baltimore
Minneapolis isnt bad its an average city and overall kinda wack
Can you name some cities where the highest crime area of town is not also the majority black area of town? If you can do that, then you might be able to call the statement racist.
Comparing crime stats to demographic stats for almost any major metro area usually brings the same result.
It doesn't matter what trends are...that is nothing but issuing stereotypes to a race/ethnic group, which is barbaric for any person to fall susceptable to do...
Have you ever thought that maybe blacks over-represent the crimes committed? In my ethics class, we were handed stats on crimes committed by race in Hennepin County. Holy ****, so unfair, our justice system is... It revealed that even thought roughly the same percent of blacks-to-whites were arrested for all types of crime (although blacks were slightly higher), the jail and prison population told a VERY different story. Over 70% of these populations are comprised of black inmates. What's more, is that blacks were FAR more likely to be pulled over/interrogated/stopped in public by the police. This basically said that even though less whites than blacks were being stopped by police in the first place, they were arrested at nearly the same numbers as blacks (suggesting that a higher percent of whites were initially suspected of committing crimes than blacks!), but released/charges dropped/pardoned at a much higher rate than blacks, thus making the prison population in our state over 70% black. Something is DEFINITELY wrong here. Also, everyone seems to forget that just because a neighborhood is predominantly black, doesn't mean that whites don't live there. In fact, there are whites ALL OVER north and south MPLS. So why is it that every time a crime is committed in these areas, people automatically assume it is the black population committing these crimes and say, "I told you to stay away from the black neighborhoods...look at the stats, etc." It just doesn't make any logical sense to me...
THAT, my friend, are the only hard facts to me.
I won't even go into how badly the local media portrays blacks.
To judge ANY race on any type of behavior, social pattern, or attitude, is by its very nature, racist. That also goes for positive reinforcement toward groups too... For instance, if you were to say (or even think to yourself), "Geez, I hired a bunch of Mexicans to paint my house, and they were really good at it...etc. etc. etc. so Mexicans must be really hard workers..." is a racist pattern of thought. Even when I hear things like, "Italians will give you the shirt off their back," "It must be the Norweigian blood in Minnesotans that make them so friendly," I just roll my eyes. What stupid, uneducated, non-factual assumptions. There are good and bad in every race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, heritage, etc.... And, IMO at roughly all the same rate.
Last edited by Minneapolitan; 02-26-2008 at 01:42 AM..
people say Dowling and 94 are bad? I always heard people use it as a qualifying statement like "I live over north but its north of Dowling" but never really heard anyone speak horribly of it.
Seems like to some people anything in North Mpls is "a bad area." It pains me to even type the words, but there are some people who think that if you see more dark skin than light skin it is somehow dangerous.
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