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Old 09-05-2017, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
5,833 posts, read 7,682,460 times
Reputation: 8867

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VALT View Post
The fact that so many that grew up here do not think there is a problem, proves that there is a problem, because they do not go out of their way to include others (even newcomers with signs on their backs). My boy's mortifying first moments of school just passed and the teacher just said "sit anywhere"...well of course, the Minnesotans all bunched up in the center circle and the rest of us were standing on the outer rings and the teacher stood there smiling for 5 minutes!

No there's no problem here!! You folks just stand and squirm while we enjoy ourselves!

There outta be a law against this in my view.
I'm curious how you determined that the people bunched up in the center were "Minnesotans?" The way I read your post you didn't interact with these people. I'm also curious about what prevented you from sitting in the center where you seemed to want to be.

(I assume you mean native Minnesotans since you too are now a Minnesotan.)
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Old 09-05-2017, 01:34 PM
 
539 posts, read 443,711 times
Reputation: 1637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
I'm curious how you determined that the people bunched up in the center were "Minnesotans?" The way I read your post you didn't interact with these people. I'm also curious about what prevented you from sitting in the center where you seemed to want to be.

(I assume you mean native Minnesotans since you too are now a Minnesotan.)
Exactly. Unless you and your child were wearing matching t-shirts with lettering that said, "Minnesota Sucks", I highly doubt anyone knew you weren't a native. Sometimes when people are looking for something they will find it regardless if is actually there. Some people swear they saw the Snipe when they are sent on a Snipe hunt.

I'm a born and raised here first generation Minnesotan. You have to be a second generation Minnesotan to learn the secret hand shake. Alas, if only I knew the secret hand shake...
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Old 09-05-2017, 04:30 PM
 
67 posts, read 220,971 times
Reputation: 42
OK - you fellas have chosen an easy target - I do internalize far too much that goes on around me - probably half of it is imagined - always have and now I'm passing it onto my son. I'll work on that and for his sake try to be more careful.

Which raises an important - perhaps doubly important point - besides neurotic newcomers, how are you treating those who happen to be in the minority in your state??

I would be happy - proud in fact - to have him to sit with the less popular kids (several who seemed to be minorities). I would like to close this discussion on that note.
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Old 09-05-2017, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
5,833 posts, read 7,682,460 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALT View Post
OK - you fellas have chosen an easy target - I do internalize far too much that goes on around me - probably half of it is imagined - always have and now I'm passing it onto my son. I'll work on that and for his sake try to be more careful.

Which raises an important - perhaps doubly important point - besides neurotic newcomers, how are you treating those who happen to be in the minority in your state??

I would be happy - proud in fact - to have him to sit with the less popular kids (several who seemed to be minorities). I would like to close this discussion on that note.
You'd be wise to let your son make his own friends. You aren't doing him any favors by micromanaging his life.
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Old 09-07-2017, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
369 posts, read 631,962 times
Reputation: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALT View Post
The fact that so many that grew up here do not think there is a problem, proves that there is a problem, because they do not go out of their way to include others (even newcomers with signs on their backs). My boy's mortifying first moments of school just passed and the teacher just said "sit anywhere"...well of course, the Minnesotans all bunched up in the center circle and the rest of us were standing on the outer rings and the teacher stood there smiling for 5 minutes!

No there's no problem here!! You folks just stand and squirm while we enjoy ourselves!

There outta be a law against this in my view.
I'm not a native Minnesotan. I've only lived here for 3.5 years. Most of my friends are other transplants. I do recognize the problem. I also recognize that if it isn't a problem for someone else, they aren't likely to put much effort into fixing it. A native Minnesotan isn't going to NOT be your friend because you're not Minnesotan. They are just likely to already have established friends, so their need for new friends is less.

That, however, is not the same for 5-year-olds. 5-year-olds haven't been alive long enough for cliques.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:15 PM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,734,006 times
Reputation: 5007
VALT,

Fair warning, I'm a native Minnesotan (S. Mpls) who'd lived out abroad for almost twenty years and moved back in 2010. I'm guessing you live within a couple miles of us, if not closer. My kids are all middle school aged now, but we moved to St Paul when they were 1st & 3rd graders.

I meet a couple Dad's at the bus stop & we'd chat. Ask others how their kid's like kindergarten or how they chose the school? They'll open up like a sail. Soon we were all bringing a tumbler of coffee and we'd hang around for a few minutes after the bus left chatting on the corner. Soon my kids made friends with some of the kids. To be clear, we don't go camping together. We're not best friends. I do consider them friends though and at least have someone to chat with at the back-to-school open house.

Then I volunteered at school. I did field trips, track 'n' field day, talent show set-up, etc. I met some people that way, plus it's good for your kids to see you care & are involved. Soon the parent leaders were calling me all the time for things & we'd get invited to the odd barbecue at their houses.

Mt girls did Brownies & Scouts for a couple years. Another thing where I met some people.

I enrolled my kids in sports. This has been the biggest one for us. The club they play soccer at depends on parent volunteers to help manage the clubs & coach some of the lower level leagues. I've gotten to know a lot of people that way.

You personally could join a softball team, broom ball (look it up, lol) is about to start & you can join a team there. These teams often go grab a beer together at a local tavern after a game & that's a good way to meet some people as well.

Out of curiosity, which neighborhood here in STP did you move to? Feel free to PM me if you're jnot comfortable saying publicly.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:21 PM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,734,006 times
Reputation: 5007
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALT View Post
The fact that so many that grew up here do not think there is a problem, proves that there is a problem, because they do not go out of their way to include others (even newcomers with signs on their backs). My boy's mortifying first moments of school just passed and the teacher just said "sit anywhere"...well of course, the Minnesotans all bunched up in the center circle and the rest of us were standing on the outer rings and the teacher stood there smiling for 5 minutes!

No there's no problem here!! You folks just stand and squirm while we enjoy ourselves!

There outta be a law against this in my view.
I'm on your side brother, but you're reading way too much into this. 5 y/o's don't have a secret handshake to exclude others. Maybe some of those kids went to pre-school together & so naturally they sat together out of familiarity? Give it time & let the kid breath.
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Old 09-08-2017, 12:00 PM
 
67 posts, read 220,971 times
Reputation: 42
Well, well, I do have friends! All it took was a little complaining :-). Seriously, these are very helpful comments for me and to anyone else I imagine that may be in the same situation. It seems it will always be easier to change myself than everyone else in the city. The culture here is very can do and if people are more reserved, flipping out about it is only going to hurt myself and set a bad example for my son.

I still feel I'm allowed- so thanks! for this indulgence!!!
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Old 09-08-2017, 02:45 PM
 
1,349 posts, read 1,700,091 times
Reputation: 2391
I explained Minnesota Nice to a friend of mine who's lived here 15 years but who's originally from Chicago area. He was floored. He knew people were different here but couldn't quite firmgure out exactly why. When I explained it to him it was like a lightbulb went off. He said he'd never considered some of the expected norms (small talk, nothing is great or terrible, keeping up appearances related to the greater good vs self promotion etc) were that pronounced but now that I've explained it he feels he understands better.

He is kind of a striver and wants to be excellent/expects that others should strive for excellence. I said that laziness is frowned upon but 'being the best' and sacrificing to get to the top are seen by many Minnesotans as trying too hard to be better than everyone.
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Old 09-09-2017, 01:48 PM
 
Location: St Paul, MN
588 posts, read 559,691 times
Reputation: 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALT View Post
OK - you fellas have chosen an easy target - I do internalize far too much that goes on around me - probably half of it is imagined - always have and now I'm passing it onto my son. I'll work on that and for his sake try to be more careful.

Which raises an important - perhaps doubly important point - besides neurotic newcomers, how are you treating those who happen to be in the minority in your state??

I would be happy - proud in fact - to have him to sit with the less popular kids (several who seemed to be minorities). I would like to close this discussion on that note.
We've been here just a few months now; hubby and I just had this conversation the other day! The comments being made to us such as "you sure have moved around a lot", "why did you leave Colorado", "why Saint Paul" are annoying. We've lived in four different states and this is the only place where we've come across this. Seeing this attitude towards us, one who moved here from another American state, does make me wonder how those from Somalia are being treated. Would those comments be made to them?
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