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Old 10-18-2019, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Heart of the desert lands
3,978 posts, read 1,972,777 times
Reputation: 5219

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Parking concerns and SFH property value concerns are all valid, IMO.

I lived in a lone fourplex in North East for a year in the early 80's, the only fourplex I knew of for blocks. There was one narrow strip to one side to get a car or two off the street, but it was a hassle juggling the cars with a the neigbors schedule, so I just parked on the street. The lady upstairs got it by default then. Me and the other two tenants parked on the street.

And winter snow removal? There was no room on the off side of the street to park all of the cars on a street of 99% single family homes as it was. A few had back alley single car garages, but most did not.

It was a huge hassle when it snowed.

I would not want to be a SFH owner, and find myself bracketed by fourplex units either for many reasons.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:11 AM
 
9,683 posts, read 11,055,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
I stand by these comments. I have seen people living in 64 SF shacks made of cardboard because that is what they could afford. It wasn’t their first choice.

The real motivation for building these is in the article you linked to. The developer can charge more per square foot for a small apartment.

In any event, these tiny apartments seem likely to become short term rentals rather than long term housing for anyone. The short term rental use of new apartments is a problem that is exacerbating the housing shortage.

https://www.minnpost.com/metro/2019/...-term-rentals/

Does anyone on this forum plan to downsize to 240 SF?
For a reference, The average USA hotel room is 325 square foot https://www.fixr.com/costs/build-hotel .

We "need" at least 2500 square foot and to be comfortable along with a three car garage. Currently, I'm covering one of my lake side decks with a 11'x20' windowed enclosure (making it a four season porch) on our MN lake home.

240 square feet is basically a shoe box.
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Old 10-19-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,299,128 times
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I couldn’t now that I have a family but definitely would have lived in a 240 sq ft apartment back in my early 20’s.
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:18 AM
 
948 posts, read 913,130 times
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I do not support zoning changes to make it easier to build fourplexes. I do not think it will improve affordability. I think the only purpose is to help developers and real estate investors to make more money with less land.

I might support it if there were certain restrictions on them so they would help people who can't find affordable housing. For example, there is a severe shortage of income-based rentals, where tenants pay a portion of their income; so I might support zoning exceptions for those. I might also support zoning exceptions for housing coops or intentional living communities.

I don't think that's the intention though. I bet the intention is for some rich developers to buy up historic single family houses and knock them down, to build expensive fourplexes that they will sell or rent for the same price as single family homes. That sounds like a very good way for real estate investors to keep making profits in a city where the housing bubble is already reaching its ceiling.

If they city really wants to make housing more affordable in Minneapolis, they need to provide more low income housing for the poor, and they need to give owner-occupants an advantage over investors in buying their own homes.

Last edited by tlarnla; 10-24-2019 at 09:26 AM.. Reason: paragraph spacing
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Old 10-24-2019, 09:24 AM
 
948 posts, read 913,130 times
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I do not support the idea of tiny apartments either, because I think that also is designed for real estate investors and developers to make more money with less space.

However, I would support the idea of allowing tiny homes for owner-occupants. I may also support tiny homes as part of a coop or intentional living community. I would not support them as an investment vehicle though.

Last edited by tlarnla; 10-24-2019 at 09:27 AM.. Reason: paragraph spacing
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Old 10-24-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,299,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlarnla View Post
I do not support the idea of tiny apartments either, because I think that also is designed for real estate investors and developers to make more money with less space.

However, I would support the idea of allowing tiny homes for owner-occupants. I may also support tiny homes as part of a coop or intentional living community. I would not support them as an investment vehicle though.
This argument ignores basic economics. If the concept was strictly a money grab with no value-add to potential renters then nobody would rent there and it would sit vacant and be unprofitable. In the article I cited the owner stated that within months of opening more than half of the 307 units have been leased which has emboldened him to pursue a second high-rise development in downtown Minneapolis. Thus it appears there is demand for this type of living arrangement.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities
5,833 posts, read 7,667,665 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
This argument ignores basic economics. If the concept was strictly a money grab with no value-add to potential renters then nobody would rent there and it would sit vacant and be unprofitable. In the article I cited the owner stated that within months of opening more than half of the 307 units have been leased which has emboldened him to pursue a second high-rise development in downtown Minneapolis. Thus it appears there is demand for this type of living arrangement.
The article also stated that the developer was motivated, at least in part, by the high selling price per square foot of the smaller units versus the normal sized ones. I believe you will find most of these going to investors for vacation rentals or for corporate housing. That seems to be borne out by the lack of parking spaces.

There is nothing incongruent about a developer being motivated by higher profits and a successful venture.

In the end, there are only two ways to make housing more affordable in the city. You either bring down the cost per square foot by depressing real estate prices or you lower the number of square feet. Since prices per square foot are already lower in the suburbs, people seeking low cost housing generally look there. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s worked pretty well since after World War II.
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,299,128 times
Reputation: 5303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenfield View Post
The article also stated that the developer was motivated, at least in part, by the high selling price per square foot of the smaller units versus the normal sized ones. I believe you will find most of these going to investors for vacation rentals or for corporate housing. That seems to be borne out by the lack of parking spaces.

There is nothing incongruent about a developer being motivated by higher profits and a successful venture.

In the end, there are only two ways to make housing more affordable in the city. You either bring down the cost per square foot by depressing real estate prices or you lower the number of square feet. Since prices per square foot are already lower in the suburbs, people seeking low cost housing generally look there. There is nothing wrong with that. It’s worked pretty well since after World War II.
My view is if the developer likes it because more $$$/sq ft and renters like it because it provides a lower cost option for someone who wants to live in the city and pay lower rent and is ok with living in a smaller space then that’s a win/win.

Meanwhile if there are alternative rentals in the suburbs that are lower cost and more space then great. Who doesn’t want to have more options?
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Old 10-24-2019, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
5,833 posts, read 7,667,665 times
Reputation: 8867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
My view is if the developer likes it because more $$$/sq ft and renters like it because it provides a lower cost option for someone who wants to live in the city and pay lower rent and is ok with living in a smaller space then that’s a win/win.

Meanwhile if there are alternative rentals in the suburbs that are lower cost and more space then great. Who doesn’t want to have more options?
I don’t disagree. And there’s always the time tested solution for people in their 20s who need more affordable housing arrangements: roommates.
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Old 10-25-2019, 01:49 PM
 
202 posts, read 426,963 times
Reputation: 726
Lol you think housing or rent is gonna go down...these scumbag landlords will charge u in blood if they could. Best to just make more $$
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