Is Minneapolis going to be the experiment for a policeless major city? (for sale, home)

[BeauCharles]

I hope the suburbs are ready for the rush of new residents. Between the riots/looting/arson and now this proclamation by the city council (that they're basically going to throw the baby out with the bath water) it probably doesn't instill a lot of confidence in the future.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

This is honestly something they should let the city as a whole vote on and not let 9 people decide something so huge. I get that those people themselves were elected, but for something like this I really hope they let the whole city vote on this one issue specifically.

That is exactly what will happen. The city charter would have to be amended before the council could disband or defund the police force and that requires a vote of the people.

[ciceropolo]

Originally Posted by ChicagoMeO

Hello, I'm from Chicago, and when I saw this on the news, I could not believe my ears.. I said "oh no they are really going to do that ridiculous dangerous experiment for real.


just thinking about this - so if they do disband the police, some of the citizens who are kept at bay from shooting people they hate, now will have the ability to go shoot some people they don't like and get away with it. lets say you get a few people who don't like people of another color and then they go decide to shoot some of them because they will get away with it. how about some people who were victims of crimes now think they can go out and randomly shoot at someone coz theres no police around?


this is stupid and will backfire.. I know I gave some stupid examples, but this can backfire on the ones who are cooking up this stupid plan.

I'm thinking someone will distribute the address of all city council members supporting the defunding of police with a message to loot at will for photo op on the 6 o clock and 11 o clock news.



All supporters of doing so should have their homes listed as looting assembly points with the whole thing to culminate at a selected Target store of choice. That store will then function as a 'roach motel' for the looters.


The irony to all of this type of progression of stupidity, will be when the national Police are brought in as Lodestar aptly mentioned, or even worse the UN Police. Foreign National forces have been trained on US soil for a long time and in the 90s there were surveys / psych studies of US military as to whether they would be willing to fire upon US citizens.

[mgforshort]

Most people, myself included, don't realize how lucky they are until they lose all the things providing comfort and security, like the roof, the lights, the central heat, or the police.

I think defunding the police could be the very best thing in this country.

It wouldn't last longer than a month, or two, but afterward we'd beg the police to return, hug all officers every chance we get, and there wouldn't be another riot for the next thirty years until a new generation grows up.

That is kind of cynical coming from someone living in a small town of 3,000 where cime is rare and guns are abundant, nevertheless, I think defunding the police for a short time is the shock therapy we need right now.

[wamer27]

This is all somewhat interesting to even think about. Within the city, would county laws trump city, would state trump city? If it was a free for all....the then fired police force or any other person who so well chooses would just go kill all city council members.

If it is defunded, I’m dropping all my clients within Mpls. If makes it’s way to a city vote, the vast majority being middle class will shut the plan down. Any person who owns anything will vote to keep police.

[BBMW]

Other than the looney leftist protester class, does this move have any real support in the city population. What is the local scuttlebutt?

[Glenfield]

City council already walking back yesterday’s pledge to disband MPD.

https://www.facebook.com/60684157936...485144269/?d=n

[llowllevellowll]

Originally Posted by PrincessoftheCape

I was not taught that - it's something I've always believed. I am innocent.

First of all, the vast majority of my forebears are French Canadian and Irish, most of whom were not present for the American Civil War, let alone slave society. We're also almost exclusively Yankees, which even further removes us from the guilty party. So even if I accepted the idea that people are 'responsible' for the actions of their ancestors - and I do not - mine are not culpable.

Second, statistically, African Americans do account for a higher proportion of crime in this country than any other race. This does not mean that blacks commit more crimes than whites, but that - based on population statistics - they are doing more than their expected share. You can attribute that to upbringing, inner city culture, or even the default, go-to 'the system is racist' play all you like - but it doesn't erase the fact that when people encounter African Americans in the U.S., a minor amount of heightened concern is not unwarranted (there's giving a person a fair shake, and there's keeping both eyes open. I tend to believe that smart people quietly defer to the latter). You cannot blame people for an honest reaction based on something that is true.

In addition to the above, elements of African American society do themselves no great favor by embracing 'thug culture.' There is a heavy push amongst portions of black society to project a very 'hard' - and even threatening - image to the outside world. Whites do not bear any responsibility for this elective behavior - we neither foisted it on young black men, nor do we continue to prop up gang-banger rap music, militant, overtly racist leaders/icons like Al Sharpton, Spike Lee etc. That's all home-grown, and it's damaging to efforts to normalize relations between races.****

Finally, I have never oppressed anyone directly, and have no plans to. I deny any implication of collective responsibility - I don't owe anyone so much as a 'sorry,' let alone some huge, false, disgraceful dollop of white guilt. I cannot be talked into it, and I certainly cannot be shamed into it.

If this 'gets out of hand,' it's going to be a second civil war - a very, very short civil war. And, I hate to break this to you, but the progressive half of the country is going to lose, and lose big (as in: being forcibly driven from the country). In some theoretical race-fueled war, the people throwing Molotov cocktails and screeching about injustice are going to be completely bulldozed by the army and most of middle America. 'We've' only let things get to this point because we are so incredibly tolerant... but everything has its limits. Push too many buttons, and the extremely loud - but very inexperienced militarily - faction isn't going to be a faction in this country anymore.

****It must be stated, of course, that no two people are alike. We're talking about patterns of behavior across a wide spectrum; not necessarily even the rule, but often the loud and noticeable exceptions to the rule. But this also happens to be the same crowd of people who just burned down significant portions of American cities, leaving many African Americans both puzzled and embarrassed that a certain, small segment of their community cannot seem to sit down and shut up. I don't take my cues as a white person from David Duke or the KKK; why should most blacks - let alone the rest of the country - listen to, respect, or even tolerate the most extremist, violent, hostile, and unrealistic faction in the other camp? BLM shouldn't be getting air time as the "representatives" of a culture - they should be getting booed off the national stage by all corners.

I don't disagree that it would be a bloodletting in the streets. I fear for this country in a way I've never had to before. The left would be mowed down in the streets. If you google a story about a police officer being ambushed in Ben Lamond, California, you'll see why that is likely coming sooner rather than later. It is likely that some really regrettable violence is on its way in the form of counter protesters with guns and bombs, and i think we've all known that was coming next.

If you're okay with it, though, I'd like to clarify a few points. The first is that your point about crime isn't a convincing point when we're discussing the criminalization of people of color in the U.S. And this isn't a political issue because Democrat leaders are just as guilty. In the past 2 decades, California as an example has added 1,000 new crimes on the books alone, and they're "liberal". When you look at what those crimes are, you'll see an obvious connection between them and a desire to lock up non-violent people of color in this country who aren't conforming to social norms that you and I are able to deviate from without much thought. Yesterday a man in Alameda, California was forcefully arrested for practicing choreography in a bike lane near his apartment. He was standing there because he was practicing social distancing and didn't want to be in anyone's way on the sidewalk. While he was being roughed up by police, white onlookers were explaining to the police that he is a member of the community and does this every morning and not to make a big deal out of everything. That doesn't stop the police but it's a start.

The point of that is to say that we know this wouldn't occur to me or to you. And when we don't show our humanity, we are complicit in its continuation. It's different from being innocent of slave ownership. None of us owned slaves. But that's the black-and-white, non-nuanced part of the deal and that's not what anyone is accusing us of.

I think we can all understand that part, right? These aren't direct things. People are asking us -- and i can agree that maybe the message sounds too extreme at times. I've warned people that some methods aren't how you reach white people in the middle, but the point is that they are asking us to speak up. I think we can all see how the system works, and it's rather undeniable to say that it is overtly racist.

It's also no different than how many other nations respond to either indigenous or black deviations from social norms. In Canada, police officers used to drive indigenous males who were found to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to the outskirts of the city during winter where they would inevitably freeze to death. There's a point in the criminalization process where violence replaces incarceration because of that eventuality anyway. Indigenous peoples in Canada make up 4% of the population and 33% of their incarceration rates. Both social darwinist and positivist ideas helped shape the world during early industrial periods and we see this particularly well in the western hemisphere. Mexico, Brazil, Peru, et. al all have very similar issues as it relates to 'newcomers', 'forced newcomers', and 'natives'.

I think one of the difficult things is that sometime this is framed as though the U.S. is the only one that engages in this behavior and it sometimes feels like an attack on what might otherwise be a blessed nation. I also think our propensity toward religion plays a role because it's difficult to rationalize that 'one nation under god' might need a little bit of social reform. It's my hope that we can all literally have a kumbaya moment and agree that certain things do need reform. If we do it fast enough, we could save a lot of lives and become a stronger nation together. If, on the other hand, that civil war we discussed does happen, you should be well aware that you would be living under an absolute police state within a short amount of time, and I know we both see those elements forming now. I don't think that's the alternative anyone wants but a bloodletting evolves into that much quicker.

Anyway, you've brought up some good thoughts and I've appreciated our dialogue. Thanks for that.

[tijlover]

Defund the portion that covers police with quotas for traffic infractions and the vice squad and just fund enough for the Peace officers.

[BlakeJones]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

City council already walking back yesterday’s pledge to disband MPD.

https://www.facebook.com/60684157936...485144269/?d=n

This honorable councilmember is not walking back anything, he is saying exactly what was circulated in the media that they are working to replace the MPD with social workers.

The ONLY new thing he said in this facebook post is that the plan they come up with will be put to a citywide vote. So he just gave himself an out