Will the Minneapolis/St. Paul area ever recover from the riots? Or has it already? (Bloomington: sales, attorneys)

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by RedtheCat

Happened to Milwaukee too. Growing up there in the 70s 80's crime was fairly low, around 1990 or so it exploded!! So sad, tragic and needless. At least in the Cities, suburban people seem to care more than suburban Milwaukee people

I agree there seems to be a bigger gap between the city and suburbs in places like Milwaukee, Chicago and Detroit.

[snebarekim]

Originally Posted by naycherboy

No, this isn't correct.

Based on Corelogic data, which uses the most current crime and population data available. In this case, it doesn't include 2020 data as its not available yet and Minneapolis will suffer subtantially when that is integrated, as I elaborate on below.

Before outlining where you're wrong, I'm tempted to be generous and say that you fall victim to the same perception that many in Minneapolis do. And it's easy for it to happen. Minneapolis has had a halo since the 60s when it used to be seen as almost a crime free city. Things started deteriorating in the 70s and we had the establishment of Murderapolis in the 90s. Things have ebbed and flowed, but 2020 has seen much more violent crime. Why do we think Minneapolis is so safe? Many reasons, but the big one to me which is admittedly anecdotal, is how many nice people there are. After all, crime is always committed by a fraction of the population in any developed country so the bulk of our interactions are with some really solid, kind people. Not just my opinion, but the opinion of many be it locals, nationwide visitors and international travelers. Will that halo persist given the events of 2020? At first I thought no, given the way the riots were (not) dealt with but now I'm admittedly more optimistic. Minneapolis has many attractions.

But when you look at the numbers, Minneapolis is a rather dangerous city from a violent crime perspective. Admittedly, citywide data for any city has issues because crime is neighborhood specific whether it's Memphis, Sao Paulo or Shanghai in the 1930s. There are ALWAYS nice neighborhoods to live in, even in third world countries, that have low crime and other attributes that come along with it. Minneapolis has many nice neighborhood. The parks, the housing stock....all more reasons why many think Minneapolis is a gem. And it is in many ways. But it has some of the most pronoucned crime statistics in the country.

And to be specific on your list, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta and Dallas all have lower violent crime rates per 1000 people than Minneapolis in the Corelogic data. Again, that will deteriorate after 2020 data is integrated. If I cherry pick murder data only, Minneapolis does better. But for violent crime overall, it's not a great picture. Nor is it for overall crime. If I analyze 2020 data, where Memphis and Detroit haven't reported and been integrated yet, Minneapolis is worse than all on your list except St. Louis and Dallas. I'd add that your list of cities has a bit of bias to them. It's quite difficult to be worse than St. Louis where the murder rate exceeds some cities in Brazil in given years.

Common knowledge is often correct, but it has sizeable gaps in it that need to be remediated by an intelligent approach to the facts.

Here's a read that's easy to digest for all levels of understanding of the issue. If you search more thoroughly, you will find that the data on Minneapolis crime is quite damning.

Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site

Good post.

And you touch on the downward trend of Minneapolis long term. There have been ebbs and flows, but Minneapolis has trended more dangerous and anarchic over time, without corresponding large population changes (more ebbs and flows).

The OP's question was "Will Minneapolis recover?", so what needs to be assessed is the baseline defining "recovery".

I was born and raised there and saw the 60's, 70's and left in the late 80's. I return routinely for visits (my family is still in MN) and can see the decline in Minneapolis of many neighborhoods. Lake street from 1970 to now is just a huge example.

So will Minneapolis "recover"? Recover to what? The trend has been down for decades.

Minneapolis needs to be compared to itself, not to other cities with their own unrelated dynamics.

[RedtheCat]

Originally Posted by snebarekim

Good post.

And you touch on the downward trend of Minneapolis long term. There have been ebbs and flows, but Minneapolis has trended more dangerous and anarchic over time, without corresponding large population changes (more ebbs and flows).

The OP's question was "Will Minneapolis recover?", so what needs to be assessed is the baseline defining "recovery".

I was born and raised there and saw the 60's, 70's and left in the late 80's. I return routinely for visits (my family is still in MN) and can see the decline in Minneapolis of many neighborhoods. Lake street from 1970 to now is just a huge example.

So will Minneapolis "recover"? Recover to what? The trend has been down for decades.

Minneapolis needs to be compared to itself, not to other cities with their own unrelated dynamics.

It must have been awesome back then!!

[snebarekim]

Originally Posted by RedtheCat

It must have been awesome back then!!

Even in 1980 it was not lost on me there was people coming to live in Minneapolis from other cities, a lot from Chicago in particular.

Hennepin county had a type of general assistance welfare (locally known as GA) that was very easy to become accepted into. Proof of at least 30 days residency (utility bill would work) and a city address was all that was needed.
It was $200 a month (over $600 a month by todays value).

My Philips area neighborhood was full of people living on GA. I worked at the MSP airport and supported myself.

Even then I carried a Ruger with me nearly everywhere on the south side. I rarely went on the north side. I spent time with friends on the NE side quite a bit. NE Minneapolis was still pretty decent back then. Just don't go over the Broadway bridge.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by snebarekim

Good post.

And you touch on the downward trend of Minneapolis long term. There have been ebbs and flows, but Minneapolis has trended more dangerous and anarchic over time, without corresponding large population changes (more ebbs and flows).

The OP's question was "Will Minneapolis recover?", so what needs to be assessed is the baseline defining "recovery".

I was born and raised there and saw the 60's, 70's and left in the late 80's. I return routinely for visits (my family is still in MN) and can see the decline in Minneapolis of many neighborhoods. Lake street from 1970 to now is just a huge example.

So will Minneapolis "recover"? Recover to what? The trend has been down for decades.

Minneapolis needs to be compared to itself, not to other cities with their own unrelated dynamics.

I disagree with your assessment of Lake St. Before last summer There was development and improvement along nearly all parts of W Lake and E Lake between 2000-2020. Look at all the yuppy development in Uptown. Look at the Midtown Global Market, the Midtown/Lake St station of the light rail, the Midtown Greenway, the Midtown Farmer’s Market, the library just east of Hiawatha, restaurants like Sonora Grill, Hi-Lo Diner and Peppers and Fries in the Seward area going towards the river. Did the city suffer a setback with the riots last summer? Absolutely. But I’m confident the city will rebuild. Pay close attention to the intersection at Nicollet and Lake. The Kmart will soon be razed and Nicollet will be opened up connecting Eat Street to the Lyndale and Kingfield neighborhoods. I fully expect the area to see fairly aggressive redevelopment. If you look just south of Lake that commercial node is already in full rebuild mode and should end up looking even better than it did pre-George Floyd.

Lake Street is back, baby.

[MplsTodd]

I agree with Cruz Azul.
I grew up in Hopkins in the ‘70s, but remember how Lake Street deteriorated from the ‘70s through the ‘early ‘90s. There was high vacancy and several adult theaters & dive bars along the street. But around the mid -‘90s, it started to improve. While Calhoun Square isn’t what it was, Lyn-Lake has grown significantly, plus all the LRT induced development at Hiawatha & Lake. The Mercado at Bloomington Avenue was the first ethnic city market, later followed by the Midtown Global Marketplace. The Midtown Greenway has really helped too, connecting central neighborhoods to the lakes & the river.

[skeddy]

Minneapolis is now thought of a place to stay away from. Will take generations for that to change.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by skeddy

Minneapolis is now thought of a place to stay away from. Will take generations for that to change.

So what do you suggest? We pack up our bags and move to Beantown?

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by MplsTodd

I agree with Cruz Azul.
I grew up in Hopkins in the ‘70s, but remember how Lake Street deteriorated from the ‘70s through the ‘early ‘90s. There was high vacancy and several adult theaters & dive bars along the street. But around the mid -‘90s, it started to improve. While Calhoun Square isn’t what it was, Lyn-Lake has grown significantly, plus all the LRT induced development at Hiawatha & Lake. The Mercado at Bloomington Avenue was the first ethnic city market, later followed by the Midtown Global Marketplace. The Midtown Greenway has really helped too, connecting central neighborhoods to the lakes & the river.

I agree that there was a huge improvement on Lake St., especially East Lake St., between the late 80s and 2020, however that area is really hurting now from the double whammy of the riots and covid lockdowns.

A lot of small businesses are still closed, and some that were completely destroyed in May haven’t been cleared yet. Midtown Global Market and Mercado Central are technically open, but many of the businesses are shuttered and there are almost no shoppers when I go there.

I think that many of these small businesses are just not going to survive. What replaces them and over what time frame is an open question. I love East Lake St. and count several of the business owners as friends. Their struggle is real and while I want to be optimistic, let’s not sugarcoat it either.

[Kavalier]

Originally Posted by snebarekim

Hennepin county had a type of general assistance welfare (locally known as GA) that was very easy to become accepted into. Proof of at least 30 days residency (utility bill would work) and a city address was all that was needed.
It was $200 a month (over $600 a month by todays value). .

I wish people like you would state the plain, obvious truth of why the Twin Cities has changed so drastically more often.