Your take on the Lakeville Police "raid scandal". (city hall, crime rates)

[jazzymentality]

Originally Posted by my54ford

HE did not VIOLATE anything! There is no law saying you have to close and lock your doors or take your keys out of your car. There are still thousands upon of thousands of people who don't do that!

Ok, well then the police violated his house and him. I now understand how this could be a deeper problem. No, the police did not have the right to do that. If they don't have the right to do that, well then they shouldn't have done it. It's that simple.

[JenLee]

Originally Posted by my54ford

HE did not VIOLATE anything! There is no law saying you have to close and lock your doors or take your keys out of your car. There are still thousands upon of thousands of people who don't do that!

I disagree. He had 4 boys (three 5 year olds and a 7 yr old!) in his house that were awake and he left the house open and the keys in the truck. The house wasn't "raided"; the police DID ring the doorbell and also knocked on the door! It was 2 police officers, not a swat team.

I hate to tell you how many times my kids wanted (and tried!) to drive our car; leaving keys in a vehicle amounts to child endangerment in my eyes.

I have a sister who is a police officer in a western city, so maybe I have a skewed view on this: I believe the police are there to HELP us, they aren't the enemy.

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by JenLee

I disagree. He had 4 boys (three 5 year olds and a 7 yr old!) in his house that were awake and he left the house open and the keys in the truck. The house wasn't "raided"; the police DID ring the doorbell and also knocked on the door! It was 2 police officers, not a swat team.

I hate to tell you how many times my kids wanted (and tried!) to drive our car; leaving keys in a vehicle amounts to child endangerment in my eyes.

I have a sister who is a police officer in a western city, so maybe I have a skewed view on this: I believe the police are there to HELP us, they aren't the enemy.

I think this guy is just so upset because he realizes what an idiot he is and how he's now available for everyone to criticize.

[JenLee]

Well, he sure is plastering the St. Paul paper with his complaints of his 4th Amendment rights being "violated!"

How about the rights of those kids to be in a safe place? If he's sleeping so sound that the police had to ring the doorbell, knock on the door, pound on the bedroom wall and shine a flashlight in his face; he shouldn't be responsible for ANY kids!

His 15 minutes of fame were up well over 20 minutes before they started.

[whatever]

The day this happens in my house will be the day I sell my house (at a profit OR loss) and leave. Talk about hands of law sauntering through my identity...

[moving123456]

Originally Posted by JenLee

I disagree. He had 4 boys (three 5 year olds and a 7 yr old!) in his house that were awake and he left the house open and the keys in the truck. The house wasn't "raided"; the police DID ring the doorbell and also knocked on the door! It was 2 police officers, not a swat team.

I hate to tell you how many times my kids wanted (and tried!) to drive our car; leaving keys in a vehicle amounts to child endangerment in my eyes.

Your eyes are not the law. This man still broke no laws. Nothing he did gave the officers the right to enter.

It amazes me how many rights people are willing to give up for the illusion of safety and security.

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by moving123456

Your eyes are not the law. This man still broke no laws. Nothing he did gave the officers the right to enter.

It amazes me how many rights people are willing to give up for the illusion of safety and security.

You make a good point. I'm sure LEGALLY, leaving a garage door unlocked doesn't warrant a look around the property. However, it sort of does seem that the law has to be held in the eyes of the police officers, per se. They have to take a situation, in all its context, and decipher whether it warrants suspicion.

Given the promotion of the Lakeville PD's campaign, practically built upon keeping garage doors closed (or so it sounds), I think they felt obligated to let the homeowner (who appeared awake given the lights or light from the tv at least being on) know that it was open, as a possible reminder in case they were preoccupied earlier and couldn't close it. Or more likely they wanted to make sure, given their frame of mind (open garage = likely burglar flag) that nothing had been broken into, etc. They checked out the vehicle (finding keys in the ignition) and then started to wonder if the homeowners were ok. Found the front door open/unlocked too...already I think suspicion is warranted. Combine this with everything else that happened...

I can see where people feel like this is giving up a right...I can also see how the police feel they were just doing their job.

[JenLee]

Originally Posted by MNNative

You make a good point. I'm sure LEGALLY, leaving a garage door unlocked doesn't warrant a look around the property. However, it sort of does seem that the law has to be held in the eyes of the police officers, per se. They have to take a situation, in all its context, and decipher whether it warrants suspicion.

Given the promotion of the Lakeville PD's campaign, practically built upon keeping garage doors closed (or so it sounds), I think they felt obligated to let the homeowner (who appeared awake given the lights or light from the tv at least being on) know that it was open, as a possible reminder in case they were preoccupied earlier and couldn't close it. Or more likely they wanted to make sure, given their frame of mind (open garage = likely burglar flag) that nothing had been broken into, etc. They checked out the vehicle (finding keys in the ignition) and then started to wonder if the homeowners were ok. Found the front door open/unlocked too...already I think suspicion is warranted. Combine this with everything else that happened...

I can see where people feel like this is giving up a right...I can also see how the police feel they were just doing their job.

The way I feel is that IF anyone would have answered the door the police wouldn't have entered the house! When a door is open, the lights are on, the keys are in the vehicle and the police knock and ring the doorbell and no one answers then it IS suspicious and the police had a right to enter the house!

There is no violation of the 4th Amendment here: this guys' house was NOT secure; the police did a reasonable search for the adult in the house because of their on-going community campaign and the *normal and usual* response to someone at the door didn't happen. The police were not looking for any persons or things to be seized --they came upon a suspicious setting; and were doing their job: trying to protect the public. (BTW, I did read the 4th Amendment (with interpretations) before posting this.)

Can you imagine the stink there would be if this guy had had a heart attack and the police HADN'T checked that exact same setting out?

[K-Luv]

First of all, the police cannot enter your property unless you invite them, they have a warrant, or they are 100% sure that a crime is currently taking place. If the first officer was suspicious of a crime, then why did he bother to knock on the door? He should have called for back-up first, and then proceed to investigate the scene.

Also, the home owner claims that 1) the truck would have blocked the view of the door, so the cop (s) wouldn't have known that it was open until they walked up to it 2) the door leading from the garage to the house was on a spring, so how it was 'open' is a mystery 3) he claims that the children where sleeping in a room on the other side of the house. Based on those, it appears that the cops had no right to enter his house.

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by MNNative

My personal opinion/reaction...

#1 First of all, when my kids have sleepovers they aren't allowed to stay up until 3am, especially alone.

Who said that the kids where awake? According to the police, the body that they saw laying on the floor turned out to be a sleeping child.

And, not to point out the obvious, but do you think that maybe the knocking on the door and the ringing of the door bell woke the kids up, if they were indeed awake when the cops entered? It is possible that they went to bed at a decent hour before the guy did, unless you know information that I do not?

Originally Posted by MNNative

#5 Personally, my eyebrow would be raised when the kids told me they were afraid to wake the adult up.

Why?

By the way, do you know this guy?