Should the Minneapolis PD or St. Paul PD really be guiding people's real estate decisions? (insurance, crime)

[Camden Northsider]

I've heard from a number of folks on this board that they have contacted one of the cities' police departments to get crime information on a neighborhood/ area that they might be looking at, and these persons often recommend that others relocating to a new area do the same.

Allow me to rant for a minute - this whole notion of contacting the local precincts to ask about neighborhoods bothers me quite a bit - IMO police have no business guiding people in their real estate decisions, and a majority of officers in the MPD and St. Paul PD likely live in the suburbs so can't say one way or another what it's like to actually live in the cities themselves. I also feel that people higher up on the chain of command (and city council) wouldn't be too happy if they knew how some of the police officers advise people to "redline" certain neighborhoods. And what's a police officer going to say? Something like "I've got nothing to do but twiddle my thumbs all day" or "there's hardly any crime in a lot of neighborhoods in the area" or "I actually know nothing about that neighborhood, as despite it being in my precinct, we never go or patrol there"? Most likely you're not going to hear this as it would not only call to question their job security, but it would similarly make their jobs seem not as exciting as most officers would like people to believe. And the majority of the Minneapolis Police that I've encountered are so smarmy, cocky, and sarcastic that I wouldn't trust a thing they say anyways.

On another somewhat related note - it is intersting to see how local police's attitudes and behaviors shift depending on what neighborhoods they're in. If I'm on West Broadway all I see from MPD is the typical alpha male, cocky, agressive, and sometimes downright bad behavior, but if my wife are out for a walk in our neighborhood and a cop (from the same precinct) happens to stroll by, we'll get smiles, nods, and waves. Anyone have similar experiences or thoughts about this topic?

[Minnehahapolitan]

The 4th Pct. does get alot of Type A, adrenaline junky officers.
One has to remember what police are, they can tell you about crime. If people are judging the quality of an area based solely upon that, they are making a pretty big mistake in my opinion.
Lastly, it is really beyond me why they still allow Mpls. coppers to live outside the City of Minneapolis; not only is it good for neighborhoods when the people patroling them also live in them, but it allows the city to recoup financially. It only seems logical that if a Mpls. officer pays $2500 in city property taxes, it is no different than saving $2500 in paid salary.

[SlyFrog]

No, I think we should undertake all possible efforts to avoid letting people learn anything bad about the cities. Cities good, suburbs bad.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

No, I think we should undertake all possible efforts to avoid letting people learn anything bad about the cities. Cities good, suburbs bad.

That isn't what Camden was saying at all. All of the crime information for the city of Mpls. is part of the public domain. They actually map it out on the internet. If you want to learn something bad about the City, it is pretty easy to do.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan

That isn't what Camden was saying at all. All of the crime information for the city of Mpls. is part of the public domain. They actually map it out on the internet. If you want to learn something bad about the City, it is pretty easy to do.

Thanks Minnehahapolitan - and I guess I don't understand why people feel the need to call and talk in person to an officer that might be biased when it's pretty easy to find all the information/ stats about crime in Minneapolis neighborhoods on the Crime Statistics Maps website. Regarding cops living in Minneapolis, I believe there is a points system that gives someone a slight preference if they live in Mpls, but I do think it would be wise to require officers to live in the city itself for a number of reasons including the ones you mentioned.

And SlyFrog - not only am I not undertaking efforts to avoid letting people learn anything bad about the city, I have done projects on this website that give persons a better picture of how Minneapolis neighborhoods rank comparatively in serious crime, see //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...june-08-a.html. The attachments on this thread essentially give people more and better information than what you will find on most websites that provide aggregate ZIP code level data, much of which is often incorrect, and it takes the MPD/ city website's data a step further in taking population into consideration when looking at neighborhood totals for serious offenses.

[SlyFrog]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

Thanks Minnehahapolitan - and I guess I don't understand why people feel the need to call and talk in person to an officer that might be biased when it's pretty easy to find all the information/ stats about crime in Minneapolis neighborhoods on the Crime Statistics Maps website. Regarding cops living in Minneapolis, I believe there is a points system that gives someone a slight preference if they live in Mpls, but I do think it would be wise to require officers to live in the city itself for a number of reasons including the ones you mentioned.

And SlyFrog - not only am I not undertaking efforts to avoid letting people learn anything bad about the city, I have done projects on this website that give persons a better picture of how Minneapolis neighborhoods rank comparatively in serious crime, see //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...june-08-a.html. The attachments on this thread essentially give people more and better information than what you will find on most websites that provide aggregate ZIP code level data, much of which is often incorrect, and it takes the MPD/ city website's data a step further in taking population into consideration when looking at neighborhood totals for serious offenses.

I have no idea why you have such a concern about people talking with professionals who work in exactly the field they are concerned with (crime). It's up to the individual asking to discount it appropriately if they think all cops are fascist pigs who hate cities or something.

It's odd how people who otherwise appear quite liberal suddenly start getting testy around free speech, free inquiry, and access to information (which includes access to the thoughts of administrations and individuals working for them) in situations like this one.

Why not just let people ask the cops? If they're the types to be frightened away by the horror stories of the police state, they're the types that urbane, sophisticated, hip, bohemian city dwellers don't want living there anyway. If they are urbane, sophisticated, hip, bohemian city dweller types, they either won't ask the cops or they'll completely discount whatever the cops say with a knowing chuckle.

Win-win either way I say.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

I have no idea why you have such a concern about people talking with professionals who work in exactly the field they are concerned with (crime). It's up to the individual asking to discount it appropriately if they think all cops are fascist pigs who hate cities or something.

It's odd how people who otherwise appear quite liberal suddenly start getting testy around free speech, free inquiry, and access to information (which includes access to the thoughts of administrations and individuals working for them) in situations like this one.

Why not just let people ask the cops? If they're the types to be frightened away by the horror stories of the police state, they're the types that urbane, sophisticated, hip, bohemian city dwellers don't want living there anyway. If they are urbane, sophisticated, hip, bohemian city dweller types, they either won't ask the cops or they'll completely discount whatever the cops say with a knowing chuckle.

Win-win either way I say.

Interesting/ valid points - I guess it comes down to a matter of trust and who should be put in a position of authority or trust to act in certain situations. I tend to worry about institutional actors playing an authority role on a topic that they might not be the most qualified/ objective to be doing so, and I'm pretty sure it's not in any police officer's job description or training manual to give consultations to prospective homeowners on area crime. I think this situation also brings up ethical concerns - fair housing legislation prevents those in the real estate profession from making subjective side statements about a neighborhood or area that could act to the detriment of that neighborhood's health and viability, which is generally considered very good/ necessary legislation to anyone that has studied the reality and impact of redlining in the real estate, banking, and insurance industries during the better part of the last century in this country.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

I personally did not contact anyone from the police department before I bought my house. I don't know if it should be frowned upon, but as long as people know to take it for what it is. Information from a police officer who patrols the neigbhorhood of the property in question is going to be less valuable than the advice of the guy next door who has been living in the neighborhood for 15 years but probably more valuable than your realtor's advice if he lives 45 minutes away.

[Clifford63]

You may not like what the police have to say, but you can't realistically prevent people from seeking advice. Big difference in providing answers to a questions and taking activist stance pushing a paticular view.

Also, the Internet is a great tool to gather information, but I certianly encourage people to talk to a variety of people in getting a feel for a potential area.

[kuan]

I suppose if you have to ask...