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Mostly middle-class, sure, but you should know as well as anyone that crime tends to follow certain demographics, and race is far less an issue than is economic status when it comes to crime. The City of Atlanta (and Minneapolis) can keep those folks. I like living with people who are socially and economically responsible and who have a vested interest in keeping the area clean, safe, and fun to live in, and I'm doing that. Of my five proximate neighbors, two are black families, two white, and one is Indian. Race simply isn't a factor. even "down here in the South"; we all like where we live, and we have an HOA to enforce certain rules and keep the area livable. Welcome to modern unincorporated suburban Atlanta.
Are we stuck-up super rich people? I dunno. Do you consider a $230k house that's 21 years old a McMansion? If so, perhaps we are, but I would also seriously question your definitions...
Most of the teenage girls in Minneapolis grow to be adult women in Minneapolis. Unless your daughter spends time with dangerous people, or has an affinity of illicit drugs, the danger that she would be prone to is negligible.
There are good schools and bad schools. If she goes to a good school, and cares about her education, she will receive just as good an education as any suburban school. In fact, she would be a more dynamic person by being able to interact with an array of people.
One can either choose to interact with people that are different than them, or can choose to be selective about the demographics of people who they happen to interact with. There is no middle ground. With diversity comes the bums, but the fact of the matter is that for every panhandler that one meets there are a half-dozen beautiful people who one otherwise would have never been exposed to. That's a pity. If you ever wondered why City people call your suburbs plastic, that is why. The environment in which you have chosen to live does not reflect any of the realities of humanity. There are no really rich people, there are no really poor people. There are few minorities, or foreigners. Few retirees, few single people. If the privilege of living in a place where that is not the case costs me my pocket change, then I am glad to pay.
I do not have a problem with diversity. I have a problem with crime and below average schools and those attributes correlate with income. Income correlates with drive and success and I prefer to be around like minded successful people. My daughter and son's friends are driven to succeed in school. We don't care what their freinds religion or color of their skin. I simply want less school gangs, less school fights, and less drugs. These distractions make the schools worse no matter how hard they study. There is plenty of problems in the suburb schools. Your definition of diversity isn't a part of the education that I want my kids to learn about. Instead, I'll rent the 1995 movie Dangerous Minds. In my view, it is not a "pity" to dodge a city with 8xxx annual robberies / burglaries with 450 rapes and 50 murders to boot; I call that intelligent.
I'll take the label of "plastic" to live in a safer, higher educated community. It seems as the "City people" need to understand the diversity of other peoples viewpoint; I don't want to live around problems even if that means not being diverse according to your standards. I'll use my "plastic" approach and we can fast forward 10 years to see what my Kid's do for a living.
I work daily with 50% foreigners (engineers, doctors, lawyers, business owners, Dentists, etc). The product I sell / the business that I own attract the educated and the wealthy. Why would you assume I don't interact with other cultures by living in the Burbs??
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan
I wasn't speaking to the reality of the Cities in particular. The world is shrinking, and it is an important skill to be at least passingly comfortable with people who are not like you. Suburban Atlanta may be different, but Coon Rapids caters to a disturbingly narrow demographic.
I will agree with this, rather strongly actually.
For me, the move to Atlanta was very positive in at least one respect ... I'm exposed to a lot more people from different backgrounds here. I really like that.
I do not have a problem with diversity. I have a problem with crime and below average schools and those attributes correlate with income. Income correlates with drive and success and I prefer to be around like minded successful people. My daughter and son's friends are driven to succeed in school. We don't care what their freinds religion or color of their skin. I simply want less school gangs, less school fights, and less drugs. These distractions make the schools worse no matter how hard they study. There is plenty of problems in the suburb schools. Your definition of diversity isn't a part of the education that I want my kids to learn about. Instead, I'll rent the 1995 movie Dangerous Minds. In my view, it is not a "pity" to dodge a city with 8xxx annual robberies / burglaries with 450 rapes and 50 murders to boot; I call that intelligent.
I'll take the label of "plastic" to live in a safer, higher educated community. It seems as the "City people" need to understand the diversity of other peoples viewpoint; I don't want to live around problems even if that means not being diverse according to your standards. I'll use my "plastic" approach and we can fast forward 10 years to see what my Kid's do for a living.
I work daily with 50% foreigners (engineers, doctors, lawyers, business owners, Dentists, etc). The product I sell / the business that I own attract the educated and the wealthy. Why would you assume I don't interact with other cultures by living in the Burbs??
Apparently you learned your definition of diversity in Kindergarten on Martin Luther King Day. In fact, diversity is much more than race and creed; I would contend that the biggest division among peoples is wealth. By your own accord, you do choose to live in a place with "like-minded" and "successful" people; that reflects an aversion to diversity. Don't confuse diversity and race.
Most violent crime is not random. The likelihood of being randomly shot in Minneapolis is lower than your chances of being hit by a drunk in Coon Rapids. One can do alot to help ensure that they are not a victim of crime. Innocent people are, indeed, hurt everyday. It is horrible, but so is drowning and electrocution...we don't allow those to dictate our lives though.
Fights and distractions do make schools worse, but they don't make the success rate of students who apply themselves worse. As Twain once said, "I never let schooling get in the way of my education". This isn't the Bronx, most City schools will give a child a good education if they have the curiosity that is requisite for learning.
It worrys me profoundly that you don't want your children to be educated in terms of the realities of poverty and wealth, it is one of the basic realities of existence.
I have lived in this city of years, and have yet to be a victim of crime. Any statistic that you can throw out doesn't mean **** to me -- I don't associate with criminals, keep my doors unlocked or leave a GPS on my dashboard. it isn't rocket science.
I can take a pretty good stab (all this violence really affects my colloquialisms, huh?) at what your kids will be doing in ten years. They will be doing, more or less, the same thing that you are. The apple seldom falls far from the tree. I could very well be wrong, but I have money on the cycle continuing.
Finally...never confuse understanding with tolerance. I understand your viewpoint full well, it just isn't one that I tolerate. The point of being exposed to a variety of things is the ability to examine and critique them. I am exposed to thugs and to Uptown fashionistas, I don't have a fondness of either demographic. Put it this way. I have been exposed to suburban mindsets, I have thought about and analyzed suburban mindsets and have come to the conclusion that I do not approve of them based on the fact that (because the City and its suburbs are not mutually exclusive) they influence me just as much as they influence you. Your decisions shape the way the metropolitan area functions in more ways than I can list.
I have lived in this city of years, and have yet to be a victim of crime.
I'm actually kind of surprised by this. Although taking precautions can dramatically decrease the liklihood of being the victim of a crime, sometimes **** just happens. I have been a victim of a crime in Minneapolis, non-violent of course. I've also been the victim of a non-violent crime in Eagan, Anoka, Coon Rapids, Collegeville, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Mexico, etc. etc.
Apparently you learned your definition of diversity in Kindergarten on Martin Luther King Day. In fact, diversity is much more than race and creed; I would contend that the biggest division among peoples is wealth. By your own accord, you do choose to live in a place with "like-minded" and "successful" people; that reflects an aversion to diversity. Don't confuse diversity and race.
Most violent crime is not random. The likelihood of being randomly shot in Minneapolis is lower than your chances of being hit by a drunk in Coon Rapids. One can do alot to help ensure that they are not a victim of crime. Innocent people are, indeed, hurt everyday. It is horrible, but so is drowning and electrocution...we don't allow those to dictate our lives though.
Fights and distractions do make schools worse, but they don't make the success rate of students who apply themselves worse. As Twain once said, "I never let schooling get in the way of my education". This isn't the Bronx, most City schools will give a child a good education if they have the curiosity that is requisite for learning.
It worrys me profoundly that you don't want your children to be educated in terms of the realities of poverty and wealth, it is one of the basic realities of existence.
I have lived in this city of years, and have yet to be a victim of crime. Any statistic that you can throw out doesn't mean **** to me -- I don't associate with criminals, keep my doors unlocked or leave a GPS on my dashboard. it isn't rocket science.
I can take a pretty good stab (all this violence really affects my colloquialisms, huh?) at what your kids will be doing in ten years. They will be doing, more or less, the same thing that you are. The apple seldom falls far from the tree. I could very well be wrong, but I have money on the cycle continuing.
Finally...never confuse understanding with tolerance. I understand your viewpoint full well, it just isn't one that I tolerate. The point of being exposed to a variety of things is the ability to examine and critique them. I am exposed to thugs and to Uptown fashionistas, I don't have a fondness of either demographic. Put it this way. I have been exposed to suburban mindsets, I have thought about and analyzed suburban mindsets and have come to the conclusion that I do not approve of them based on the fact that (because the City and its suburbs are not mutually exclusive) they influence me just as much as they influence you. Your decisions shape the way the metropolitan area functions in more ways than I can list.
A person that truly values diversity understands that you can learn something from anybody and strives to embrace differences in cultures and values. If you want to nail a person to a tree because they have wealth and subrubanist mindset, perhaps diversity is not something you have mastered just yet.
A person that truly values diversity understands that you can learn something from anybody and strives to embrace differences in cultures and values. If you want to nail a person to a tree because they have wealth and subrubanist mindset, perhaps diversity is not something you have mastered just yet.
What rule says that your have to embrace diversity on every level? Sure, everyone can teach you something. It just doesn't always have to be good, though. Some ideas are just bad, and blindly accepting them for diversity's sake is either spineless or stupid. I think the fact that Indians have a caste of untouchable people is a bad idea. It doesn't reflect on my opinion of the individual person, and I can learn other things from that culture...holding ill-will towards street sweepers is not one of them.
Apparently you learned your definition of diversity in Kindergarten on Martin Luther King Day. In fact, diversity is much more than race and creed; I would contend that the biggest division among peoples is wealth. By your own accord, you do choose to live in a place with "like-minded" and "successful" people; that reflects an aversion to diversity. Don't confuse diversity and race.
Most violent crime is not random. The likelihood of being randomly shot in Minneapolis is lower than your chances of being hit by a drunk in Coon Rapids. One can do alot to help ensure that they are not a victim of crime. Innocent people are, indeed, hurt everyday. It is horrible, but so is drowning and electrocution...we don't allow those to dictate our lives though.
Fights and distractions do make schools worse, but they don't make the success rate of students who apply themselves worse. As Twain once said, "I never let schooling get in the way of my education". This isn't the Bronx, most City schools will give a child a good education if they have the curiosity that is requisite for learning.
It worrys me profoundly that you don't want your children to be educated in terms of the realities of poverty and wealth, it is one of the basic realities of existence.
I have lived in this city of years, and have yet to be a victim of crime. Any statistic that you can throw out doesn't mean **** to me -- I don't associate with criminals, keep my doors unlocked or leave a GPS on my dashboard. it isn't rocket science.
I can take a pretty good stab (all this violence really affects my colloquialisms, huh?) at what your kids will be doing in ten years. They will be doing, more or less, the same thing that you are. The apple seldom falls far from the tree. I could very well be wrong, but I have money on the cycle continuing.
Finally...never confuse understanding with tolerance. I understand your viewpoint full well, it just isn't one that I tolerate. The point of being exposed to a variety of things is the ability to examine and critique them. I am exposed to thugs and to Uptown fashionistas, I don't have a fondness of either demographic. Put it this way. I have been exposed to suburban mindsets, I have thought about and analyzed suburban mindsets and have come to the conclusion that I do not approve of them based on the fact that (because the City and its suburbs are not mutually exclusive) they influence me just as much as they influence you. Your decisions shape the way the metropolitan area functions in more ways than I can list.
I'm not sure you are understanding my point of view (considering the fact that I don't live in Coon Rapid's you must be skimming my text). I wouldn't live in Coon Rapids.
I know people who have been robbed in Andover (we were). Also We were broken into in Anoka and ones in my cabin in Duluth. It happens in every community especially in MPLS; stats don't lie. You are right, most crimes are not random; they like to steal the nice cars and the better GPS's. I'm glad that you have dodged having your GPS stolen. Keep it up there, someone will want it more than you. It's a matter of time.
I know plenty about poverty and probably more than you. I grew up poor. I have a home on the beach in Mexico and know what poverty means. I'm going down next week to do some volunteering for a few days and a few more days of vacation. The difference is people in the town I live in (on average) don't think that they deserve my stuff because they have less. And personally, I'd rather help someone who was in MX than in the USA because the opportunities are a whole lot less in MX than in MPLS. Meaning, people who are born here and don't succeed are blowing their opportunity. So go ahead and assume you know me by figuring I don't want to get to know a street sweeper. You can also assume my Kid's are blind to what is around them but this is a thread about Andover not me. I diverge...
In summary, you are welcome to raise your Kid's the way you want and I will raise mine the way I do. I dodge crime and want better quality schools. You think the gangs in school means "diversity"; bums on the streets are part of the culture, and you seek out an engaging conversation with people who have less while I seek a conversation from a person who has more. We just have different interests.
I would personally never want to live in MPLS for my stated reasons. That's just me. No, it's not just me it is also all of those "plastic people" in the Burb's.
What rule says that your have to embrace diversity on every level? Sure, everyone can teach you something. It just doesn't always have to be good, though. Some ideas are just bad, and blindly accepting them for diversity's sake is either spineless or stupid. I think the fact that Indians have a caste of untouchable people is a bad idea. It doesn't reflect on my opinion of the individual person, and I can learn other things from that culture...holding ill-will towards street sweepers is not one of them.
If you take the stance that each person has lattitude to embrace diversity in the way the feel it is approriate, you are good to go. The corallary is also true. If you take a stance where you have some higher level of enlightnment, and as such are entitled to judge those whose opinons diverge, you are nothing more than a cog in the machine of hypocrocy. Truly enlightned people are catlyst for change by presenting a possative message and leading by example.
People of the suburban mindset tend to put the concerns of their family above anything else. Putting your family first is not something that implicitly shows adversion to diversity.
If you take the stance that each person has lattitude to embrace diversity in the way the feel it is approriate, you are good to go. The corallary is also true. If you take a stance where you have some higher level of enlightnment, and as such are entitled to judge those whose opinons diverge, you are nothing more than a cog in the machine of hypocrocy. Truly enlightned people are catlyst for change by presenting a possative message and leading by example.
People of the suburban mindset tend to put the concerns of their family above anything else. Putting your family first is not something that implicitly shows adversion to diversity.
Depending on your definition of "embracing diversity", we may have finally figured this out. If one is exposed to diversity and doesn't like something they see yet still embraces it as a whole, that is acceptable. If one rejects diversity for its own sake, particularly if they have not critiqued it to begin with, I feel that there is a lack of curiosity within that person. What I am trying to say is that there is permissible latitude of thought within the umbrella of diversity...but no latitude when that thought steps out into the rain.
If your corollary were true, in my case, I wouldn't allow people to criticize me based on the premise that they weren't as intellectual or on the same level. I don't do this for two reasons. I can usually separate a person from an idea ( bar Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter) and I value the stimulation of an exchange of ideas. There are better ideas and worse ideas, but not better and worse people.
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+1.
I have a problem with crime and below average schools and those attributes correlate with income. Income correlates with drive and success and I prefer to be around like minded successful people. My daughter and son's friends are driven to succeed in school. We don't care what their freinds religion or color of their skin. I simply want less school gangs, less school fights, and less drugs. These distractions make the schools worse no matter how hard they study. There is plenty of problems in the suburb schools. Your definition of diversity isn't a part of the education that I want my kids to learn about. Instead, I'll rent the 1995 movie Dangerous Minds.
In my view, it is not a "pity" to dodge a city with 8xxx annual robberies / burglaries with 450 rapes and 50 murders to boot; I call that intelligent. 
