School Uniforms - Why Not? (Minneapolis, Bloomington: cliquey, rent, how much)

[StilltheSame]

We are in the process of moving to the Twin Cities. My disappointment in housing options is for another thread at another time, but I will likely rent in St. Louis Park for a year and look to buy near Lake Harriet next year sometime. In looking at schools and areas, I am surprised to discover that elementary schools (and middle schools) do not require school uniforms. I love the fact that my kids now wear uniforms for a variety of reasons. Does anyone know whether this matter has been up for discussion and the reasoning behind the decision? Just curious as to why and whether this may change at some point in the future. Needless to say my kids are thrilled the uniforms are no longer required!

[StPaulEastSider]

There are schools which require uniforms. My children have attended two charter and one public school which required uniforms. Most Catholic Schools require uniforms, at least in the grade school years.

For public schools in Minnesota, uniforms never were required until fairly recently. In my observations, it is only the lower-income public schools which require uniforms, unless it's a charter school, then it may require uniforms irregardless of the socio-economic make up of its students.

The research is varied on whether or not uniforms help create an atmosphere where attendence, behavior, academic acheivments, etc is measurably improved. Here is the summary of one report stating there are no marked improvements in these, and other, areas in schools requiring uniforms.

That being said, I am really not familiar with St. Louis Park and Minneapolis schools located near Lake Harriet, other than at the catholic HS levels. I believe DeLaSalle HS in Minneapolis requires uniforms, but Benilde-St. Margaret's HS in St. Louis Park does not... BSM is my alma mater.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by StilltheSame

We are in the process of moving to the Twin Cities. My disappointment in housing options is for another thread at another time, but I will likely rent in St. Louis Park for a year and look to buy near Lake Harriet next year sometime. In looking at schools and areas, I am surprised to discover that elementary schools (and middle schools) do not require school uniforms. I love the fact that my kids now wear uniforms for a variety of reasons. Does anyone know whether this matter has been up for discussion and the reasoning behind the decision? Just curious as to why and whether this may change at some point in the future. Needless to say my kids are thrilled the uniforms are no longer required!

It has definitely been brought up in discussion before. I'm on the same boat as you. I've been a student in uniform and non-uniform schools and have taught at schools requiring uniforms and it definitely makes a difference from a social standpoint. In all of my experiences, the schools with uniforms were way less "cliquey" than the non-uniform schools.

[StilltheSame]

I went to visit public schools in the area today and definitely believe uniforms would be a plus. My kids go to a small private school with some pretty well off families (were not but chose this school and make the sacrifice) and I am a strong - very strong advocate for uniforms. Studies or not - I think its a plus. I see spending a fortune on clothing for my children - and there is no way I would let them wear what I saw many of those children wearing to school. Appearance isnt everything, but its important - I dont care what studies say. At this rate - I think they may end up right back in private school. Just my two cents.

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by StilltheSame

At this rate - I think they may end up right back in private school.

I certainly agree life is easier, and more cost effective, when schools require uniforms - regardless of what the studies report.... You may want to look closely at charter schools. I don't really know what's available for charter schools over in the Mpls/St. Louis Park neck of the woods... but if someone else could chime in, a charter school may give you the uniformed school w/o the cost of a private school.

If you do go the private school route, the Twin Cities do offer high caliber parochial schools at a fraction of the costs of private schools.

[golfgal]

Well, if you look at most high school kids it looks like they wear uniforms-jeans and a t-shirt . Our kids have never had to wear uniforms, even at the Catholic school they attended. There were many days I wished they did for the ease of dressing in the morning. In the days when you had school clothes and play clothes uniforms were cost effective. Since kids play in the same clothes they go to school in generally, uniforms require you to have 2 sets of clothes so they end up costing more then you would normally buy.

The kids still know who has money, who does not. Uniforms do not prevent cliques or anything of that nature. What they do do is make sure everyone looks nice and feels good about themselves and that is important too. I don't know of any regular public schools that require uniforms in MN as of now.

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Well, if you look at most high school kids it looks like they wear uniforms-jeans and a t-shirt . Our kids have never had to wear uniforms, even at the Catholic school they attended. There were many days I wished they did for the ease of dressing in the morning. In the days when you had school clothes and play clothes uniforms were cost effective. Since kids play in the same clothes they go to school in generally, uniforms require you to have 2 sets of clothes so they end up costing more then you would normally buy.

The kids still know who has money, who does not. Uniforms do not prevent cliques or anything of that nature. What they do do is make sure everyone looks nice and feels good about themselves and that is important too. I don't know of any regular public schools that require uniforms in MN as of now.

My kids don't make wardrobe changes during the day unless they need one (i.e. mud, food, diaper leak, etc). So, having a uniform would just be annoying for us. Lots of extra laundry.

FWIW, I believe I read that Olson Middle School in the Camden neighborhood has uniforms. It's a public school. Maybe someone else can verify that?

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by StilltheSame

I went to visit public schools in the area today and definitely believe uniforms would be a plus. My kids go to a small private school with some pretty well off families (were not but chose this school and make the sacrifice) and I am a strong - very strong advocate for uniforms. Studies or not - I think its a plus. I see spending a fortune on clothing for my children - and there is no way I would let them wear what I saw many of those children wearing to school. Appearance isnt everything, but its important - I dont care what studies say. At this rate - I think they may end up right back in private school. Just my two cents.

What grades are you looking for? And what areas? What about the clothing was it you didn't like? I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

My daughter goes to school in the Wayzata school district though we do not have *nearly* as much money as the other families (and we don't live in the district). Relatively speaking, her school is actually one of the "less economically wealthy"/ less "showy" elementary schools in the district, so that might contribute to why I don't perceive a lot of the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality. She is in first grade, so I'm sure things gain quality as kids get older (I imagine high schoolers wear more "grown up" designers- aka Juicy Couture, BCBG, etc) but so far there hasn't been anything to imply we'll have to revisit our decisions anytime soon.

Schools have a pretty low tolerance for inappropriate attire, so anything with profanity or bare bellies and sagging pants shouldn't be an issue.

Personally, I see no need for uniforms. Like Golfgal said, kids know whether you have money regardless of what clothes you're wearing and if they want to tease you because of it, such is life. I grew up in a home with a single mom who made sure she provided for me despite the fact that she barely made $10/hour. I had presentable clothes, no holes or stains or whatnot, and the only time I got teased for what I was wearing was when a boy said he didn't get why I wore colored socks instead of plain white socks (in elementary school). After 12 years with the same kids, you get to know everyone's backgrounds and money was just not an issue with the kids at my school, I guess. (I went to Richfield, fwiw.)

Having said all that, my husband went to private Catholic elementary school and then public high school (Bloomington Jefferson). He says he thinks the clique issue was probably more dependent on the class size than the uniform thing. At Jefferson, how much money your family had and such might have dictated who you hung out with to an extent, but that's part of how people tend to gravitate towards like people.

For the most part, kids are going to find reasons to pick on other kids if they want to, whether it's because of their clothes or what they're having for lunch.

[StilltheSame]

To clarify my issue with visiting schools today - I visited elementary schools and believe that the children were dressed too casually. I dont think parents should send their kids to school in the same manner as they send them outside to play. I prefer a level of formality associated with school - in the same way that work requires a dress code. If anything - others would probably complain that my children are overdressed/ I spend too much on clothing. And, Ive had kids in uniforms for years and spend far less on uniforms than I will in not dressing them in uniforms. As for the children, its not about the money - at least from my perspective - there will always be people with more money - people with less - its in how you present yourself and attire yourself in a proper manner - I think that starts as a child and is important in the learning environment. We can agree to disagree as to positions - my inquiry was more whether this was on the table in the Twin Cities - or whether it had not been an issue - or had been decided against.

[Kebinminn]

I think you'll find that Minnesota is a pretty casual area. I've learned this from people I know from the south or even cities like Chicago. As a whole I think we're a very informal group of people.

You'll find uniforms in some charters and private school. I recall a while ago one district around here started talking about it but the parents didn't want it.