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For the last 9 years, my husband and I have been renting in the Whittier/Uptown area. Our daughter has attended a neighborhood school, but the area hasn't exactly been brimming with children which has posed its share of struggles. She was recently accepted into FAIR school for this school year and so we have the ability to live anywhere in the city for transportation purposes. Additionally, we are now searching for a home around $200,000 or less. We've been looking at neighborhoods such as Longfellow, Standish and Victory, but I am worried they may not be family friendly and/or we will all go into shock over being in such residential areas with little access to the things we have enjoyed while living where we do now. Any input on neighborhoods or thoughts from those who live/ have lived in any of these neighborhoods with children? Thanks so much!
Wow- I guess everyone must have been expecting me to pipe in on this one so decided to leave it alone! All of the neighborhoods you are looking at are pretty safe- the Longfellow/ Seward neighborhood areas would have the higher amount of crime of the 3 which still isn't much, and in my opinion all are nice neighborhoods.
You will have no worries about family-friendliness if you move to the Victory Neighborhood. There are many activities/events that occur regularly here geared towards families- on a couple of occassions we've asked our friends if we can borrow their kids in order to fit in better. Some of the bigger ones: Holiday on 44th, Victory Ice Cream Social, outdoor movies on the parkway, "Live on the Drive" concert series, the Victory garage sales (has massive participation and is a great way to get out and meet your neighbors), Loring Community Schoolyard garden/Kids Cook events (fall harvest, banquets, etc.), Camden Farmers' Market, and ongoing family-oriented activities at Webber Park in the next-door neighborhood of Webber-Camden (Folwell Park also has some nice events like Shakespeare in the Park and Dog Daze). Most of the Victory n'hood events mentioned above are organized by the ViNA (neighborhood association- Victory Neighborhood: the official website of the Minneapolis neighborhood) which is highly active and a great place to get involved and meet the neighbors.
Other family-oriented amenities in the area: Victory Park (next to Loring School) has tennis courts, wading pool, basketball court, and an area that is currently being converted to a soccer field. Webber Park has a library, community center with organized youth activities throughout the year, an olympic-sized swimming pool, pond (and waterfalls) turned ice skating rink w/warming house in the winter, freshly resurfaced tennis courts, and trails that connect to Victory Memorial Pkwy to the west and North Mississippi Regional Park to the east. Kitty-corner to Webber Park they will be building a new $15M Webber library shortly. Victory Memorial Parkway offers tons of green space where kids and neighbors regularly organize games and is great for walking/biking, and we were happy to find when we moved here that there are a few lakes w/in walking distance albeit on a smaller scale than the more well-known lakes (Ryan Lake here in the n'hood, Crystal Lake in Robbinsdale, Cedar Lake & Theo Wirth Park areas are a short bike ride on the parkways).
Many neighbors/ blocks organize events here throughout the year- there seems to be a trend in people opening up their houses to neighbors lately for concert series, plays/puppet shows, etc. There are a massive amount of block clubs in the neighborhood which is a good way to meet neighbors and find excuses to get together- Nat'l Night Out is huge here, I would guess at least every other block if not more have well-attended celebrations, and I've even seen a block on Xerxes (parkway) that regularly rents bouncy castles and puts them on the parkway for events like these.
Regarding other kids in the neighborhood- we know some people who have older kids attending FAIR here and I've seen several other homes with signs supporting FAIR in their front yards. I believe there is a higher per capita rate of kids in Victory vs. the Minneapolis average, but you will find that some blocks literally have kids in just about every house and others won't have many if any (my block has a few infants, a preschooler, and a few high school kids). However, Victory is going through some big change right now with many longtime residents aging out (e.g. going to condos, retirement homes, becoming snowbirds, etc.) while very young singles, couples, and families are moving in- in just the past couple of years it feels like I've seen an explosion of people with strollers around which includes a very visible stay at home moms group (which I have to admit seems a little out of place). On our block we're friends with about 5 other homeowner couples in their 20s/early 30s without kids (yet). Another regular on here (kebinmn) is a parent and lives just across the parkway in Robbinsdale and has mentioned that in her area there does seem to be a good amount of starter families with young children but that many families leave and move out to bigger homes in the suburbs as their families grow (I tend to see a lot more infants/toddlers and elementary-aged kids in this n'hood vs. middle/high school aged kids as well). Hopefully a Victory parent will find this and give their experiences.
We moved here from Uptown/ Whittier area ourselves (wife lived in Lowry Hill East for several years, I was in Whittier). I'd say the only shock we went into after having moved here was not being able to sleep the first week as it was too quiet (we were very accustomed to buses running at all hours of the day outside our windows), and being borderline creeped out by how friendly, outgoing, and talkative the people in the neighborhood are to everyone they meet (we've since managed to become those people ourselves)- on many levels it does almost feel like a small town in the city here. As for restaurants, there's not a ton but the n'hood holds its own and seems to be on an uptick- we have Victory 44, Papa's Restaurant/Deli, Emily's Cafe, and Steamworks Coffee which are all great neighborhood/locally-owned establishments that draw people from around the area, and we similarly have easy access (sometimes walkable) to some good eateries/restaurants in Robbinsdale and greater Camden area. There are plans for a major redevelopment of the 44th Ave/ Osseo Road business node in the future, and you can see some great community theatre (Workhouse) at this intersection as well. If the n'hood offerings don't do the trick, Uptown is pretty easy to get to via 94 or a scenic parkway drive from here.
Despite big recent drops (like everywhere)- housing values tend to hold pretty well here so don't let some of the pre-bidding war foreclosure prices fool you (if you have two exact houses, one a foreclosure and one a non-foreclosure, the non-foreclosure will often list and sell for $100K more than the foreclosure, and the foreclosure will generally sell for a fair amount more than its original listing price); however, even the foreclosures seem to be raising back up a little in value nowadays and are seemingly much fewer and farther between than they were the past couple of years (and those seemingly brought a lot of new young people to the n'hood).
Although your kids can live anywhere in Mpls and get transportation back and forth to FAIR, one thing I would keep in mind is that you as parents will still be making many trips back and forth to the school for events, parent-teacher conferences, etc. throughout the year. Victory by far will be the easiest on your commute times and actually pretty convenient to getting there, esp. in comparison to the two other neighborhoods you are looking at. And, although the 3 areas likely have fairly comparable prices per square foot, your best chance of finding a little more house for the money is likely in Victory right now- which definitely wouldn't have been the case just a few years ago.
My last piece of advice woudl be to take your family to eat at Victory 44 or Papa's and then walk over to Loring School/Victory Park area and then on to the parkway- my two favorite streets in victory are xerxes and washburn south of 44th Ave if you're looking for a longer walk, and if you go on a Thursday between 3p-7pm you could check out the Camden Farmers' Market on 44th/Osseo Road. Don't be afraid to stop and ask the people you see if they live in the n'hood and what they like about it. Good luck with your decision & feel free to direct message me with any Victory-related questions.
Wow- this post got a lot longer than I intended (I tend to be long-winded, esp. on this subject).
Last edited by Camden Northsider; 08-15-2009 at 03:57 PM..
Crime was not asked about by the OP so I'm not sure why you brought it up, but according to your 2008 analysis Seward has the lowest crime of the three neighborhoods when Larceny is not considered and is essentially identical to Victory when you consider larceny. //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...-analysis.html
With that being said I feel it is inaccurate to make the claim that Victory has the lowest crime of the three areas. Yes, we all have read in every other one of your posts that Victory is a pleasant neighborhood but in all honesty there probably isn't a whole lot about it that you wouldn't be able to find in the Seward/Longfellow or several other areas in the city in the OP's price range. Neighborhoods like Corcoran, Standish as well as some parts of Nokomis and Northeast have homes in the 200k or less range and are more family oriented than Whittier. I wouldn't limit the search to just Longfellow, Seward and Victory.
Crime was not asked about by the OP so I'm not sure why you brought it up, but according to your 2008 analysis Seward has the lowest crime of the three neighborhoods when Larceny is not considered and is essentially identical to Victory when you consider larceny. //www.city-data.com/forum/minne...-analysis.html
With that being said I feel it is inaccurate to make the claim that Victory has the lowest crime of the three areas. Yes, we all have read in every other one of your posts that Victory is a pleasant neighborhood but in all honesty there probably isn't a whole lot about it that you wouldn't be able to find in the Seward/Longfellow or several other areas in the city in the OP's price range. Neighborhoods like Corcoran, Standish as well as some parts of Nokomis and Northeast have homes in the 200k or less range and are more family oriented than Whittier. I wouldn't limit the search to just Longfellow, Seward and Victory.
Hey Slig, I actually didn't say that Victory was the lowest crime- I said that Longfellow/Seward would have higher crime (Longfellow being the highest of the bunch) of the 3, which I stated after looking at both my analysis from last year and Jan- July of this current year. Standish is actually the lowest crime of the group, but again- they are all nice safe areas. You're right that I may have been reading into the "family-friendliness" thing a little bit by talking about crime, but in the past when people use this phrase they are often getting at wanting to know about crime rates as well.
I agree that the search shouldn't be limited- I do get a little long-winded about Victory and obviously have my biases toward it- it would be the closest neighborhood to FAIR in the under $200K price range in Minneapolis however.
Camden, can tell me where exactly Victory neighborhood is? Like what streets. I grew up in the western suburbs and am not to familier with Minneapolis or St Paul. I have now lived out of Minnesota for 13 years with my Navy hubby. He is going to retire soon and we are looking to settle down in Minnesota. All of our family and friends have stayed in the suburbs and I always thought I wanted to too. Schools seems to get a better rap, larger lots and houses etc. But after moving around so much and living in 6 states we want some more diversity than the suburbs offer. No offense to anyone here, I grew up in the suburbs but honestly there is little to no diversity in the burbs. Also we would love to be closer to events and activities that take place around the city. Our kids will be 9 and 6 when he reitires so we need good schools and a safe neighborhood. We are also very active in sports, our son is in football and really loves it, so do the schools have good youth football?
Camden, can tell me where exactly Victory neighborhood is? Like what streets. I grew up in the western suburbs and am not to familier with Minneapolis or St Paul. I have now lived out of Minnesota for 13 years with my Navy hubby. He is going to retire soon and we are looking to settle down in Minnesota. All of our family and friends have stayed in the suburbs and I always thought I wanted to too. Schools seems to get a better rap, larger lots and houses etc. But after moving around so much and living in 6 states we want some more diversity than the suburbs offer. No offense to anyone here, I grew up in the suburbs but honestly there is little to no diversity in the burbs. Also we would love to be closer to events and activities that take place around the city. Our kids will be 9 and 6 when he reitires so we need good schools and a safe neighborhood. We are also very active in sports, our son is in football and really loves it, so do the schools have good youth football?
So, couple of things. The Victory neighborhood is west of Penn Ave N, north of Dowling Avenue, bordered on the west by Victory Memorial Parkway, and on the north by BNSF railroad tracks. Street names include Xerxes Ave N, Washburn Ave N, Vincent Ave N, Upton Ave N, etc.
Regarding whether Victory might be a fit for your family, a couple of points:
The neighborhood is very safe, it of course is a city neighborhood so it's not crime-free but there are extremely active block clubs here. Generally very friendly, close-knit neighbors I would say.
Victory is fairly diverse, although it's one of the least diverse neighborhoods on the Northside. With that said, as of 2000 census, it was about 29% persons of color, and that likely has increased a fair amount in the last nine years.
The local public schools, however, are extremely diverse- generally swaying in the 75% students of color at Loring and Henry High, and many of the students qualifying as low-income status. They are both great schools and I've heard nothing but very positive things from neighbors (and publications, awards received, etc.), so I find it a little disconcerting that a lot of Victory parents choose to send their kids elsewhere- generally Robbinsdale schools, interdistrict academies (FAIR, IDDS, etc.) or local Catholic schools- to each his own, but the only reason I can see for kids choosing other schools is that they may be uncomfortable with the level of socioeconomic/racial and ethnic diversity at the local public schools, but maybe not. However, the one critique that I do hear of the public schools that serve the neighborhood, is that no one is too big a fan of middle schools around here- Loring and Henry (and other) schools are great, but many people seem to have something against Olson MS, not sure what the deal is there. Regarding football, I know there are a lot of leagues for younger kids around, can't say how popular/competitive sports are in the schools (I know the Catholic schools are huge on football; Henry has a very good team but their games don't seem to be the most well-attended from what I have noticed). I do see a lot of kids playing football on the parkway.
For what it's worth, the most likely place we'll send our future kids is Loring and possibly seek out IDDS or FAIR or similar or the local middle school and Henry (IB program at Henry is excellent). But we don't have kids yet so I'm not the best advice-giver here.
Don't give up yet just because of Olson or the ratings; I don't know anything about Olson, but I do know a little about some of the MPS middle schools. The overall scores of the school don't necessarily mean much to your kid. Unfortunately obviously not every student is doing well, but just because some, or even many, kids in the school are struggling doesn't mean that your kids won't. They've just done a lot of shifting around of things and I'm not sure how it's all going to shake out, but I attended Anwatin in the early '90s, which also probably had an overall very low rating. There was a school within a school, though, and my core academic classes were in the pre-IB program which was a magnet, and therefore was filled with kids who applied for it (i.e. kids with parents who cared at least a little about education). I think Anwatin is slated to become all IB (but haven't been following all that closely), which at least in the past meant that you were almost guaranteed a spot in the IB programs at either Southwest or Henry. In any case, I guess my bigger message is to do a little more investigating of the actual schools to see if there's a story behind the bad scores, or check out to see your other options. I doubt that even if you live in the area you'll be forced to go to Olson.
Loring Park is nice; very urban, convenient to downtown. I haven't lived there, but my impression is that there aren't a lot of kids, if that matters.
Fulton is far less urban, but far more family-oriented. It's very safe, but not very diverse. Schools are good, though.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 12-16-2009 at 11:27 PM..
I agree with what Uptown said- do research and site visits of schools to see if they might be a good fit for you and your children. There is a lot of choice in the city, and I think that's why a lot of parents have their kids all over the board in the schools that they attend (I know some parents that simply have preferred to have their kids in schools closer to where they work as they find it more convenient with drop-off/pick-up schedules and are closer if they need to get there during the day, etc.). There are also demographics shifts happening around town as Uptown said due to redistricting and/or the changes that are happening in the neighborhoods being reflected in schools.
Note that schools in Southwest Mpls are often considered the "best" MPS schools- although it generally does have great schools, places like Henry have as good a reputation and often are at or above their level in all of the 'rankings' or various awards (the SW schools will generally have better test scores, but to me this is more indicative of the generally higher socioeconomic status of kids that attend). Also, I believe Olson is now doing pre-IB curriculum as well, which is a bonus I think.
In my opinion, which is just that, if you can find a neighborhood that you like and is good for your family (in terms of environment, price points, feel, community-orientation, amount of kids in the n'hood, etc.), the rest will likely fall into place- there is a lot of choice so you don't have to feel tied to one school or another, and it is not unusual from what I've seen for kids to have friends from school that live all over the city (we've recently become friends with a group of couples whose common link is that one half of the couple all went to school at Henry together- although most of their families lived in Camden, a couple of them hailed from areas of SE Mpls and other parts of Mpls).
On another note- I did find it interesting that you grew up in the western suburbs and are looking inwards to the city- it has been surprising to me the number of neighbors we have that are young people that originally grew up in the west metro area (which I guess technically includes my wife)- we have friends on our block that grew up in Wayzata, Minnetonka, and Golden Valley, and from what I can tell this seems to be becoming more commonplace.
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Victory Neighborhood=Best Bet IMO
)- on many levels it does almost feel like a small town in the city here. As for restaurants, there's not a ton but the n'hood holds its own and seems to be on an uptick- we have Victory 44, Papa's Restaurant/Deli, Emily's Cafe, and Steamworks Coffee which are all great neighborhood/locally-owned establishments that draw people from around the area, and we similarly have easy access (sometimes walkable) to some good eateries/restaurants in Robbinsdale and greater Camden area. There are plans for a major redevelopment of the 44th Ave/ Osseo Road business node in the future, and you can see some great community theatre (Workhouse) at this intersection as well. If the n'hood offerings don't do the trick, Uptown is pretty easy to get to via 94 or a scenic parkway drive from here.
