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Old 11-19-2009, 08:57 PM
 
10,629 posts, read 26,681,323 times
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For any future posts or replies: please keep the general discussion about politics and immigration (illegal or otherwise) to the forums dedicated to those topics, and keep the general discussion here Twin Cities-specific.

Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 11-19-2009 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 11-19-2009, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities
302 posts, read 725,207 times
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Repubocrat: it's probably time you do move. I moved here from California and I love it. Granted, I'm pretty liberal so the progressiveness of the Cities appeals to me. And I don't mind paying more taxes because I know that paying a little more brings a higher quality of life (safer towns, more parks, cleaner streets...etc). I pay more in state taxes here than I paid in California and I can SEE the difference! I wouldn't want to live in a red state...no desire at all, so I can see why you might not be happy here. If I were you I would move far south - to Texas or Mississippi. Or maybe North Dakota? It's a nice red state and you wouldn't have to move too far. And stay away from the evil blue states (that I love) - NY, California, most of New England... Also, if you DO decide you want to stay in Minnesota, there's always Michelle Bachmann's district? You might feel more at home there. Good luck to you!
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Old 11-20-2009, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Jax
38 posts, read 46,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
For any future posts or replies: please keep the general discussion about politics and immigration (illegal or otherwise) to the forums dedicated to those topics, and keep the general discussion here Twin Cities-specific.
Politics have a direct effect on the area where you live in. They local political values tend to permeate an area as affects the approach the citizens and local governments have about life.

For example this state tends to micro manage a lot of your daily life. Because of the widespread socialism it has a direct effect on so many things. High taxes don't necessarily equate with better standard of living. In general government does not spend money efficiently and Minnesota is a perfect example of it.

My point being in general Minnesota has much higher taxes than is necessary because of the pervasive socialism here. Yet the average Minnesota has been brainwashed into thinking it is so wonderful here when that is more a facade than reality. The government here needs far more accountability. The people here tend to be "superficially" nice but not really nice to people not born and raised here or who have direct family ties.

I've lived here for 10 years. Almost all my friends are "foreigners". By that I mean non-Minnesotans. They almost all say the same thing. I found the South much more welcoming on real terms than Minnesota.

A community here talked about how wonderful it was they had a "block party". It was a big deal and it seemed like they were the only community here that did it. Where I lived in Atlanta before it was pretty common so much so that it wasn't a big deal. Here in MN they touted it as a big deal.

Minnesota Nice is truly a myth. I am very outgoing and involved in a lot of things and for the most part the vast majority of people I've met are superficially nice unless you are a "native". My 2 oldest kids who grew up in Georgia continually want to leave Minnesota. They repeatedly tell me the kids here aren't as friendly as the one in Georgia. There are a lot more elitist, snobbish people here in my estimation as well.

God forbid you don't live in Edina, Plymouth or some other upscale, over priced, snooty area. Heaved forbid you shop at Walmart or Target instead of the Galleria. This is attitude is more typical of the liberals I've met than others.

So if you are a non-native Minnesotan, and not an EXTREMELY liberal person, then avoid Minnesota. By extremely liberal I mean you drink the kool-aid and are blinded by your ideology, then don't move here. If you love sanctuary cities then maybe Minneapolis is for you. If your idea of progressive is socialism then Minnesota is your home. If you believe high taxes with very little government accountability is a good thing then come on down! If you want a place that will fine you and threaten to arrest you because your water sprinkler kicked on 2 minutes early, then maybe you'll really grow to love this place.

Why are people fleeing this place if it is so good here? Why don't any new corporations relocate here? What effect will that have on the job market in the future. All of you who love high taxes, remember how much you love them when no companies will come here because of the high cost of doing business in this state. Think of what effect that will have on your children. When businesses leave and there is less revenue for the government, do you think Minnesota will reduce their budgets or just raise taxes to compensate???
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Old 11-20-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,325,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TasmanianDevil View Post
So if you are a non-native Minnesotan, and not an EXTREMELY liberal person, then avoid Minnesota.
I'm not sure I'd write off the entire state of Minnesota as being extremely liberal. There are actually very conservative areas in the outer areas of the Twin Cities and in the greater state. Ever heard of a US Representative by the name of Michelle Bachman? The state's governor for the last two terms is a Republican and before that it was an independant, how does that make the state of Minnesota "extremely liberal" ?????
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:56 AM
 
10,629 posts, read 26,681,323 times
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Hmm... I'm trying to figure out how it isn't a contradiction to bash almost all of the residents of a state for all sorts of perceived reasons (including political beliefs, although like Slig said: Michelle Bachmann and Pawlenty aren't exactly anything near liberal...), paint yourself and your home state as superior in every way, without being rather superficial, judgemental, or snobby yourself?

(as an aside, it's okay to discuss politics within a local framework, I just meant posters - all posters - don't get drawn into national discussions about immigration, the administration, etc. Keep it locally-relevant).
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
103 posts, read 232,712 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by TasmanianDevil View Post
Politics have a direct effect on the area where you live in. They local political values tend to permeate an area as affects the approach the citizens and local governments have about life.

For example this state tends to micro manage a lot of your daily life. Because of the widespread socialism it has a direct effect on so many things. High taxes don't necessarily equate with better standard of living. In general government does not spend money efficiently and Minnesota is a perfect example of it.

My point being in general Minnesota has much higher taxes than is necessary because of the pervasive socialism here. Yet the average Minnesota has been brainwashed into thinking it is so wonderful here when that is more a facade than reality. The government here needs far more accountability. The people here tend to be "superficially" nice but not really nice to people not born and raised here or who have direct family ties.

I've lived here for 10 years. Almost all my friends are "foreigners". By that I mean non-Minnesotans. They almost all say the same thing. I found the South much more welcoming on real terms than Minnesota.

A community here talked about how wonderful it was they had a "block party". It was a big deal and it seemed like they were the only community here that did it. Where I lived in Atlanta before it was pretty common so much so that it wasn't a big deal. Here in MN they touted it as a big deal.

Minnesota Nice is truly a myth. I am very outgoing and involved in a lot of things and for the most part the vast majority of people I've met are superficially nice unless you are a "native". My 2 oldest kids who grew up in Georgia continually want to leave Minnesota. They repeatedly tell me the kids here aren't as friendly as the one in Georgia. There are a lot more elitist, snobbish people here in my estimation as well.

God forbid you don't live in Edina, Plymouth or some other upscale, over priced, snooty area. Heaved forbid you shop at Walmart or Target instead of the Galleria. This is attitude is more typical of the liberals I've met than others.

So if you are a non-native Minnesotan, and not an EXTREMELY liberal person, then avoid Minnesota. By extremely liberal I mean you drink the kool-aid and are blinded by your ideology, then don't move here. If you love sanctuary cities then maybe Minneapolis is for you. If your idea of progressive is socialism then Minnesota is your home. If you believe high taxes with very little government accountability is a good thing then come on down! If you want a place that will fine you and threaten to arrest you because your water sprinkler kicked on 2 minutes early, then maybe you'll really grow to love this place.

Why are people fleeing this place if it is so good here? Why don't any new corporations relocate here? What effect will that have on the job market in the future. All of you who love high taxes, remember how much you love them when no companies will come here because of the high cost of doing business in this state. Think of what effect that will have on your children. When businesses leave and there is less revenue for the government, do you think Minnesota will reduce their budgets or just raise taxes to compensate???
I've been saying this for years, and certainly felt the same way during the 13 years I lived in Minnesota. But, I wonder if it is also something that the Midwest now perpetuates, too. You mentioned shopping at Walmart or Target. How about Lunds or Kowalski's, especially in Uptown. (But I haven't been in the either store for a few years, so I am curious if those stores are still attracting all the Kenwood crowd as in years past.

I remember the people who would shop at those store - the Lakes crowd. They would walk in and act like peacocks and peahens. And, many were women, with teenage children, who figured they can shop there and expected to be waited on. They would stand at the check out area, in their tall bodies, and have their heads and noses in the air, acting so damned important, while someone is bagging their groceries. Then, they would get someone to walk it out, although these were very able bodies people.

You see the same thing here at a store that over emphasizes "friendliness" and "customer service." All for prices that are a good 90 cents, minimum, per item what you buy at Target, and especially Wal Mart. Do I need to pay $2.58 for a can of Progresso soup so I can get a smile and hello from every employee at this store in Omaha, when I can buy the same exact can of Progresso Soup at Wal Mart for $1.68? Same with Silk Wave Soy Milk? At this "fake smile" store in Omaha, you can pay $3.58 for one gallon, or $6.72 for the two gallon pack. At Wal - Mart, you pay $2.68 for one gallon, or $4.68 for the two gallon pack? So, these fake nice citizens of Omaha will pay over $1.10 for a one gallon, or $2.04 more for the two gallon pack, because they feel you don't get good customer service at Wal Mart?

Do I need good customer service in buying groceries? One thing I always noticed in Minnesota and now in Omaha is the resentment that Midwesterners have toward paying for something they need. And, food is the top of their list. Yet, they can't buy it for far less at Wal Mart?

I could care less about groceries and the service I get. And, besides, I haven't experienced any bad service at the Wal Mart in this area, not anymore than anywhere else where you get not wonderful service since many kids these days don't want to do anything.

However, for major ticket items - say my Apple computer needs and my car maintenance, I always pay the top - at the dealers. Then, I expect decent service.

But, for many Midwesterners, the grocery store is still their link to their small town, farmer past, where you talked at length with all the other town folks at the local main street market, since you only saw each other there. And, after just a few short months in Omaha, I have seen the similarities between people from here and those from other parts of the Midwest - say Iowa and the Dakotas.

And, people know I'm not from the Midwest. My accent and mannerisms give it away, and I'm not changing my personality - which many folks have considered to be "refreshing" - for any employer here, while I am here for now just another six months. Stay shortened, curtailed, due to the culture, where they talk every day about the weather, the leaves they need to rake, their lawn needs, and their damned football. I'm 100% Italian, and even many of them from here do the same, which I feel is a real shame, since East Coast Italians act far differently, and are much more cosmopolitan.

And, for that matter, I've been told since I lived here to not go near South Omaha, a former Italian neighborhood, and now one occupied by the recent Hispanics in the neighborhood, as if the new occupants are a problem.

Omaha people resent the recent Sudanese in this area, too.

You know what I resent - are the home bred white Omahans who are on welfare and getting food stamps, and then buying hard liquor with their cash at the same time. They look pretty able bodies to me to get a job, even a job at a store making minimum wage, or a cut above it. Yet, this state is a damned red state - I don't need socialism, but I don't need a red state either. They like their right to lifers and hate Obama, however the ones getting all the welfare are not black, they are the white ones here.

And, this area doesn't like those of us from either coasts, either. Where I work, there is a woman from Anoka, but has been in this area for quite a while. She has that sappy, fake, personality so typical of people from where she was born and raised. Oh, she has such a sweet, soft voice. She fits right in with the Midwest culture here, actually looks like it, too. Obviously, I'm not fitting in as well. I don't look or sound the part.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:29 PM
 
10,629 posts, read 26,681,323 times
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My take on Minnesotan grocery stores is pretty different. In a lot of other places it's tough to bag your own groceries; the clerks do it all, which as someone who walks (and therefore wants my stuff bagged differently from someone who only needs to haul it to car and then into the house) was frustrating. (I remember in LA trying to grab my stuff at the grocery store the first time and the clerk asked me where I was from, then told me "we bag our own groceries in my country, too." I figured you MN-as-foreign-country people would appreciate that) In MN there are more grocery store options where you bag your own. Yes, there are some more upscale stores, but places like Rainbow and Cub aren't exactly in that category.

Many Minnesotans love Walmart. I can tell you the liberal attitude that I and some of my liberal family and friends have, though: I won't shop at Walmart because I think Walmart is an exploitive, destructive force on American society. I think they're bad for the American economy and bad for communities, and try, whenever possible, to direct my money towards local places. I don't consider that snobby, although I'll leave the details for my complaints for another thread on a different forum. Target has its issues, too, but they're also local (and generally good corporate "neighbors," as the saying goes), so while I prefer to support smaller independents when possible, money spent at Target is still mostly staying in the community. And do some price comparisions and you'll see that not all items are necessarily cheapest at the big box places. When I do pay more to shop local, though, it's not because of some wish for better customer service or friendlier staff, it's because I've seen the studies that show that a much larger portion of my dollar will stay in the community if I shop at a local place.

And I just have to say that the stereotype that all Midwesterners have a rural past is a myth, too, although one I see frequently; not everyone from the Midwest grew up on a farm or had parents or grandparents who did (just like not everyone on the East Coast is from a city). I love visiting farms and small towns, but that's not part of my heritage. Minneapolis and St. Paul have been cities for a long time, and an urban history is as much a part of local culture as anything else. Not that that really matters, but it's a little pet peeve of mine that so often cities aren't seen as the "real" Midwest experience.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:56 PM
 
336 posts, read 925,708 times
Reputation: 88
Move to Michele Bachmann's district in Wright County where I am. I am a liberal and feel like i"m going to be run out of town if I even admit I'm a Democrat! But if you are unhappy, then leave, why stay? But anywhere you go is going to have issues.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
103 posts, read 232,712 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist View Post
My take on Minnesotan grocery stores is pretty different. In a lot of other places it's tough to bag your own groceries; the clerks do it all, which as someone who walks (and therefore wants my stuff bagged differently from someone who only needs to haul it to car and then into the house) was frustrating. (I remember in LA trying to grab my stuff at the grocery store the first time and the clerk asked me where I was from, then told me "we bag our own groceries in my country, too." I figured you MN-as-foreign-country people would appreciate that) In MN there are more grocery store options where you bag your own. Yes, there are some more upscale stores, but places like Rainbow and Cub aren't exactly in that category.

Many Minnesotans love Walmart. I can tell you the liberal attitude that I and some of my liberal family and friends have, though: I won't shop at Walmart because I think Walmart is an exploitive, destructive force on American society. I think they're bad for the American economy and bad for communities, and try, whenever possible, to direct my money towards local places. I don't consider that snobby, although I'll leave the details for my complaints for another thread on a different forum. Target has its issues, too, but they're also local (and generally good corporate "neighbors," as the saying goes), so while I prefer to support smaller independents when possible, money spent at Target is still mostly staying in the community. And do some price comparisions and you'll see that not all items are necessarily cheapest at the big box places. When I do pay more to shop local, though, it's not because of some wish for better customer service or friendlier staff, it's because I've seen the studies that show that a much larger portion of my dollar will stay in the community if I shop at a local place.

And I just have to say that the stereotype that all Midwesterners have a rural past is a myth, too, although one I see frequently; not everyone from the Midwest grew up on a farm or had parents or grandparents who did (just like not everyone on the East Coast is from a city). I love visiting farms and small towns, but that's not part of my heritage. Minneapolis and St. Paul have been cities for a long time, and an urban history is as much a part of local culture as anything else. Not that that really matters, but it's a little pet peeve of mine that so often cities aren't seen as the "real" Midwest experience.
I don't need to shop at local independents to support a local economy. That is small town thinking - support only the one are you know and live. I guess you have to come from the megalopolis East Coast to think differently. If Minneapolis really wanted to support its local areas, then the city itself would require its fire and police officers to live in the city where they work, as is done on many East Coast cities, instead of having some Minneapolis cop live in Eden Prairie, or Fridley, or Minnetonka, or St. Louis Park.

I'm not a socialist. I'm not a Sarah Pahlin Republican, either. I appreciate people with a brain. However, what's important to me is my pocketbook when it comes to everyday items like groceries. When I got a computer, I literally stopped shopping at used book stores, and didn't feel badly at all. I don't need to pay overpriced items for something I can get on Amazon for a fraction of the cost. Also one other reason why the city of Minneapolis refused for years to allow an Apple store in Uptown; it probably would have put out of the business the greedy owners of First Tech. I guess there are those persons of liberalism who will only shop locally (and consider Wal Mart exploitative), but then again they probably haven't lived other places, either. But, liberalism and socially acceptable behavior in Minnesota only worked well for those who were born there, raised there, or had family connections there. Everyone else is a talk about, behind their back, outsider.

Wal Mart has its share of law suits - and when one is closed, another one opens up. But, I make less at the over priced store I work at then I would make at the Wal Mart a little further away. And, it is less by about a dollar/hour. I may have to consider a change, too, since I'm tired of waiting on customers who expect so damn much service for their groceries, only because they are spoiled brats and bred that way by not shopping at Wal Mart.

Seems to be a Midwest cultural trait.
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Old 11-20-2009, 02:07 PM
 
49 posts, read 121,930 times
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Just a couple things- have a look at this book; if you are exhausted with the politics of your neighborhood, there's likely one that you'll like better. So move there.

And not to make this a conversation about immigration, but look at Lake Street in 1990, and look at it now. And I'm willing to bet that not all of the individuals re-vitalizing that area were here with proper documents.
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