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Um, I'm a city dweller and I have never once said that there isn't bus service in the suburbs, and I have never seen anyone else say that, either. There is no monolithic "suburb" in the Twin Cities; there are many, many (not sure what the official count now, but then again, depends how many counties you include in the metro area) suburbs, and believe me, not all of them have public transportation. Others have limited options, mostly dealing with commuters. It can be a hassle even to get to major attractions like the MN Zoo (Apple Valley); MVTA runs a bus there, but it doesn't run often and not at all on Sundays. I do sometimes head out to the areas covered by MVTA so I just checked their website (because if a taxi-like service exists I'd love to know about it!) and didn't see anything quite that good. There are some flex routes in some areas which looks like a nice, but also extremely limited, option. I still don't think it's reasonable recommend to anyone depending on public transportation as their primary means of getting around to move to somewhere like Apple Valley or Rosemount unless they have really pressing other reasons for living there, such as family or a job. They do offer some options, but they're simply not designed for public transportation. There are certainly suburbs that offer a much easier time when it comes to getting around without a car. And once the Southwest Corridor light rail is up and running, some areas in St. Louis Park, for example, are going to have better transit connections (by bus and light rail) than many parts of the city. It's not a suburban/city issue, although generally speaking, the city and inner suburbs have the higher density necessary to support more transit routes, and are able to offer more options. That's not some sort of anti-suburb bias; that's pointing out the obvious. Given that most people don't move out to the outer-ring suburbs because of the ready availability of public transportation, I doubt that most people living in MVTA territory would consider that worthy of argument. I've met (and read things on this very forum) people who find it a positive, not a negative, that there aren't buses in their neighborhoods.
Now if I'm missing something, and there is a MVTA bus that will come and pick you up and deliver you wherever you want (outside of the flex routes, I mean), I would certainly be interested in learning more about it.
tjilover -- back in the 70s there was actually talk of a subway going through Uptown! I don't know the details, and obviously it was only talk, but someone did actually produce a written document for the city.
I did enjoy living in LA where I never had to climb over snow drifts to get to the bus (and where things are actually moving along on the public transportation front; perhaps because they're more desperate for traffic relief than the Twin Cities, but I wish there was more of a movement to address the issue NOW, rather than waiting until it gets that bad)
I lived in downtown Minneapolis for about ten years, and I agree with a lot of what most people are saying here (and I live in Duluth now)...so comparing that with other cities I've been to...let's see what I didn't like about Minneapolis...
1) EVERYONE and their Aunt Libby has a college degree - so you better have a lot of unique experience or a masters if you are seeking a decent job. Twin Cities area has always been promoted as a place to get these great jobs, until you see who else is applying for them, where they went to school and, yep, they too have a college degree.
2) (ties into 1) It's not 'Minnesota Nice' because very few people in Minneapolis are from Minnesota. They graduated from a Big 10 school and are in Minneapolis to score their first or second good job for a couple years until they move back to Seattle/Denver/Kansas City/whatever other metro area they're originally from. At the place I worked at I was the only one who was 'from' Minnesota.
3) Despite the population, it's the same...damn...people....over...and....over....: Being gay makes it a lot different considering we only make up about 2-5% of the male population, but it drove me up the wall when I'd go to a new place that just opened and I'd see the same dozen guys I saw at all the other places that would last for six months and then close. The potential for finding a relationship sounds great because you hear about how progressive and gay friendly Minneapolis is. Only problem is, the gays are definitely not friendly to each other!
4) The art snobs: I'm sorry, but Minneapolis isn't New York or LA - people need to lose the attitude. And that goes for these new apartment-like places that opened downtown or near Warehouse - $925 a month for a studio apartment? Are you serious? Even in Chicago the rents are not that ridiculous. The problem with downtown Minneapolis is that (I could tell) they want to create a 'sense of community' but the way the housing is priced, the only people who get to live there are either very rich (high rise apts or condos) or in absolute despair (the homeless or the people carrying around empty gas cans saying their car broke down etc). There's no middle-of-the-road housing for the people most likely to stick around for a long time - the middle class, blue collar single adults.
5) The (Minneapolis) political system lets certain people get away with murder: City Center and Block E have no shoppers or interested businesses for a REASON - but the political climate, the progressive attitude and people who are stuck in the early 90's politically correct crap won't challenge the people who choose to break the law and do whatever they want - I've been to other large cities where the cops/security just goes up to people and say 'either buy something or get out' and that's what happens - in Minneapolis nobody has a set of balls to say that. They're either afraid of getting sued or they're so scared of people that it's a 'let's just pretend this isn't happening' thing and walk away.
I'm not sure anymore whether these are 'Minneapolis' problems because you could probably say the same thing about Phoenix, Denver, whatever comparable sized city is out there. I think a lot of it depends on how you're feeling about life during the time you're there (a lot of people don't like Duluth because it's pretty much at the end of the line and not a lot goes on here, but my family is here, so I'm a lot happier), you can be living in the most exquisite, comfortable place in the country but not know anyone, still be single after looking for 10 years; you're still basically alone and unhappy...I think these people who move every 2 years because they're in search of a 'better' place are never going to be satisfied until they figure out WHY they need to keep doing this (usually it's them and not the city - that's what 10 years in Minneapolis taught me, anyway)...
To 1 and 2. They both sound like where I live. I live in a major metropolitan area with alot of out-of-staters, some from Minnesota has been kind to me. Others from California and even other nations who I have made friends among.
And college degrees, well, similar situation in Atlanta. There are people here with college degrees who are having trouble finding jobs.
As for number 5, if any person were to come up to me and say "buy something or get out", I consider that rude and I won't ever shop there again. Any place that would treat me like that doesn't deserve my money,and I can just spend it elsewhere. That will be money that business will lose. I will tell you how I responded to something similar. I was in a bookstore in an upscale mall. I just wanted to read and be left alone, as I would do in any bookstore. This woman kept following me around, and only me. I left and have never been to that place ever since. I felt like they don't deserve my dollars, dollars I can spend with businesses that won't mistreat me like that. Sometimes I just like looking at things in a store. Sometimes it helps me to do some so when I get to that place a second time around and I have money, I will know what I like. Why do I need to steal something? I know better than that. I actually fear being met with that kind of response, so I keep my mouth shut and try not to do anything that would draw attention.
Maybe you should move out with those poor suburbanites where you would have bus service that would pick you up at your door and drop you off at work on YOUR schedule ?? Seems to make a lot more sense then waiting for a city bus.
I don't qualify to ride Metro Mobility and wouldn't want to qualify. Their service is not reliable. I have both relatives and friends who've had first hand experience of that in the past.
Why would I want to move out to a suburb of the Twin Cities? So I have to walk through endless giant parking lots full of cars surrounding big box stores to get anywhere? There's a reason non-drivers are stuck living in the city, even if they'd rather not be.
Last fall I wanted to go to the MN Zoo to see an evening concert. Guess what? I couldn't find anyone with a car who could go with me so I didn't get to go at all. Why? Because even if I had somehow made the trip out there in the afternoon via several buses (Metro Transit and MVTA) I would have had no way to get home after the concert. I mean, it's the MN Zoo, for crying out loud. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I'm complaining about Twin Cities transit. In Portland their zoo is on a MAX LRT line. A lot of other cities' zoos and major attractions? The same kind of thing. I'd sure like to go Valley Fair sometimes too but it's really in the middle of nowhere with no transit options to get there from Mpls or St. Paul. I realize it's *really* out in the middle of nowhere but that's just so typical for the Twin Cities. Don't get me started on trying to go places outside of the Twin Cities in outstate MN without your own car...
Yes, we all know Denver is isolated, but equally so, is Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, Boise, and to a lesser extent, Atlanta.
Off-topic: When I lived in Mpls. 20+ years, reviewing my getaway options:
Chicago, Milwaukee, Des Moines, I always threatened, year after year, to make the trek north to Winnipeg, 450+ miles, 9+ hours of driving.
I never hear of any Twin Citian speak of Winnipeg as a getaway. Has anyone ever done it? How long did it take? 9 hours? Did I miss anything?
You are kidding me, right? If it's too cold here for me, why in hell would I want to go farther north? To you who say, get outside, enjoy winter, Duhhh, what don't you understand, I hate the cold, IT HURTS! I hate the snow, IT's COLD and WET! I don't WANT to go outside in the winter! I want to hike, bike, walk, and just plain BE outside when it's above 50 and SUNNY! After 50 years, don't you think I've tried all that winter wonderland crap? I have, it sucks, and I don't enjoy it! Get me out of here!!!!!!
Well, to be fair, I grew up in Minneapolis. I left as soon as I graduated college. I came back, because of some family issues. Now, I've got a girlfriend, good friends I went to high school with, a job I love, and now I'm stuck. I wish I could just transfer my life out of the midwest.
Crappy weather, traffic, high taxes... ugh, this place sucks.
You can transfer your life out here...just takes some courage. Do it before you get too stuck like I did. Once you're buried with mortgage payments, kids in school and just plain exhaustion from dealing with it all, you won't have the energy to get out. I had a chance to do it when I was 19 but fear of the unknown held me back. Ahhh, to go back!
Its so very cold X's 10 would be my only reasons. Otherwise it is near perfect for me anyway. The Spring/Summer/and Fall almost compensate for the dreadful winter.
You are kidding me, right? If it's too cold here for me, why in hell would I want to go farther north? To you who say, get outside, enjoy winter, Duhhh, what don't you understand, I hate the cold, IT HURTS! I hate the snow, IT's COLD and WET! I don't WANT to go outside in the winter! I want to hike, bike, walk, and just plain BE outside when it's above 50 and SUNNY! After 50 years, don't you think I've tried all that winter wonderland crap? I have, it sucks, and I don't enjoy it! Get me out of here!!!!!!
I couldn't agree with you more. I can't stand the cold either, and it's why we're headed to Austin.
It's funny though, the colder it is, the happier one of my uncles is. Some people actually enjoy the cold. I am not one of them.
I don't qualify to ride Metro Mobility and wouldn't want to qualify. Their service is not reliable. I have both relatives and friends who've had first hand experience of that in the past.
Why would I want to move out to a suburb of the Twin Cities? So I have to walk through endless giant parking lots full of cars surrounding big box stores to get anywhere? There's a reason non-drivers are stuck living in the city, even if they'd rather not be.
Last fall I wanted to go to the MN Zoo to see an evening concert. Guess what? I couldn't find anyone with a car who could go with me so I didn't get to go at all. Why? Because even if I had somehow made the trip out there in the afternoon via several buses (Metro Transit and MVTA) I would have had no way to get home after the concert. I mean, it's the MN Zoo, for crying out loud. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I'm complaining about Twin Cities transit. In Portland their zoo is on a MAX LRT line. A lot of other cities' zoos and major attractions? The same kind of thing. I'd sure like to go Valley Fair sometimes too but it's really in the middle of nowhere with no transit options to get there from Mpls or St. Paul. I realize it's *really* out in the middle of nowhere but that's just so typical for the Twin Cities. Don't get me started on trying to go places outside of the Twin Cities in outstate MN without your own car...
uh how about a bus to the zoo and a taxi home. done.
I don't qualify to ride Metro Mobility and wouldn't want to qualify. Their service is not reliable. I have both relatives and friends who've had first hand experience of that in the past.
Why would I want to move out to a suburb of the Twin Cities? So I have to walk through endless giant parking lots full of cars surrounding big box stores to get anywhere? There's a reason non-drivers are stuck living in the city, even if they'd rather not be.
Last fall I wanted to go to the MN Zoo to see an evening concert. Guess what? I couldn't find anyone with a car who could go with me so I didn't get to go at all. Why? Because even if I had somehow made the trip out there in the afternoon via several buses (Metro Transit and MVTA) I would have had no way to get home after the concert. I mean, it's the MN Zoo, for crying out loud. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I'm complaining about Twin Cities transit. In Portland their zoo is on a MAX LRT line. A lot of other cities' zoos and major attractions? The same kind of thing. I'd sure like to go Valley Fair sometimes too but it's really in the middle of nowhere with no transit options to get there from Mpls or St. Paul. I realize it's *really* out in the middle of nowhere but that's just so typical for the Twin Cities. Don't get me started on trying to go places outside of the Twin Cities in outstate MN without your own car...
Dont blame it on the Twin Cities. People in the metro just dont use public transportation, and probably never will. You need a metro area of at least 5 million to make public transportation feasible and efficient. If not, it's a waste. Look at the Northstar Commuter rail. It's already a failure and gas prices are high, and people's incomes are low. How's it going to be if gas economy gets better? Again, more jobs that are produced, the more ridership we'll see.
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Winnipeg?
