America's 75 Worst Commutes MPLS-St Paul #17 (Minneapolis, St. Paul: crime, safe neighborhood, buy)

[Gibby3000]

Yup - used to live and commute in SW suburbs - it is the worst. I couldn't believe how much better it was when I moved to the NE side - north of St. Paul. I really notice the difference now when I am down in Bloomington/Eden Prairie - very congested.

[UnusualSuspect]

I moved here from Seattle a few weeks ago, and I am LOVING the traffic here. Seriously. I've mostly been on 36, 35W, 35E, 100, and 394, and even during rush hour, it's been fine. I don't actually have a job yet (know of any?), so I don't yet know what my average commute time will be, but it was often easily an hour one way in Seattle on I-5, and if I'm working in downtown St. Paul or Minneapolis, I can't imagine my commute taking that long unless I decide to move really, really far out.

[AVguy]

Originally Posted by AVguy

At 8:00 a.m. this morning, with no snow or rain on the roads, cloudy sky, sun is up, and no current accidents, below are the travel times on northbound Highway 77 (Cedar Avenue) from Apple Valley, according to the official MnDOT web site:

T.H.77

I-35E to MN RIVER: 19 MIN (5 minutes with no traffic)
I-35E to HWY 62: 24 MIN (9 minutes with no traffic)

Mn/DOT Traveler Information

Objectively, this is a tough commute unless you work long hours or unusual hours.


Edit: At 8:20 a.m., we're down to 15 minutes and 20 minutes, respectively.

January 21, 2010, 7:25 a.m., weather.com current conditions are cloudy and 26 degrees--travel times on Highway 77:

T.H.77
I-35E to MN RIVER: 17 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: 22 MIN

In comparison, westbound Interstate 94 from Earl St. (east of downtown St. Paul) to 35W in downtown Minneapolis: 17 minutes. Between Dale and 35W it's only 9 minutes.

Edit: At 7:46 a.m.:

I-35E to MN RIVER: OVER 20 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: OVER 30 MIN

I still haven't seen any accidents on the AV to MPLS route. Again, for comparison sake, Dale to 35W is 11 minutes and Earl to 35W is 20 minutes.

It was starting to mist on my way in this morning, but if there is precipitation, it is so small that it is undetectable or unreportable by local weather observation centers.

Edit: At 7:46 a.m.:

I-35E to MN RIVER: OVER 20 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: OVER 30 MIN

Edit: At 8:19 a.m., same commute times as 7:46 a.m. It was 5 minutes and 9 minutes, respectively, when I left this morning.

The Strib just ran an article about drizzle falling this morning. It should be noted that this drizzle is so light that it is not reported in the local weather conditions. Also note that this is two days in a row of a difficult winter commute WITHOUT measurable snowfall or ice.

[QAF]

I live in Austin TX and the traffic here is atrocious. The #4 ranking for bottlenecks is not an exaggeration as traffic flows like a trickle on I-35 near downtown like clockwork. The drivers here do not make matters any better with the no-look lane changes and the inability to use that funny little lever that make a turn light blink. People are not aggressive in traffic here as the majority of drivers are rather pleasant but they are just simply not good drivers. I am not sure what it is but driving and being able to use power steering to make a simple turn onto a street without sweeping over 2 lanes of traffic or the curb is a chore. Drivers seem to be in a daydream world at times here and you end up at very long stop lights as a result. The turn around lanes on the highways are great I will admit as you tend to miss exits due to poor traffic flow and being able to hang a u-turn instead of taking the next exit is a nice thing.

Compared to Denver (where I moved from) the drivers there are aggressive, abusive, and really seem to have no regard for the speed limit or red lights. With that said the drivers in Denver do tend to not plod along and create slow moving lanes as much as they do in Austin and Texas for that matter.

How are the drivers in the Minneapolis area? Slow? Aggressive?

[west336]

Yeah, I've sat in that Ausin bottleneck when visiting my buddy there and I was SHOCKED how bad that was! It didn't seem to move! My theory with that jam is that Ausin doesn't have the infrastructure (yet) to keep up with demand.

[QAF]

The roads in Austin were not built to accommodate the volume of traffic that snarls up I-35 on a daily basis but a lot of it has to do with the drivers that do not think ahead to get in the right lanes to hit off-ramps even though they have driven the same route for years. Much of the traffic could improve if people put down their cell phones and paid attention to the road. I have avoided numerous wrecks in town by having my head on a swivel as folks tend to pull out in front of you and go very slow not realizing that they are entering a 50 MPH frontage road in front of 50 MPH traffic. On the highway the no-look lane changes and wedging a car in behind another without bothering to see if anyone is coming. Scary stuff. The state motto on the roads is "Drive Friendly- The Txas Way"...I'd like to change that to "Drive Awake and use those funny turn signals and mirrors once in a while"...ha, just having fun with my traffic woes.

[AVguy]

Sorry if this is tiresome, but hopefully I am not the only one noticing an increase in commute times in the southern suburbs. I feel the need to chronicle the actual travel times for future discussions to rebut the view that long winter commute times occur only during snowfall or on black ice days (I'm quoting my earlier post):

January 20, 2010, at 8:00 a.m. this morning, with no snow or rain on the roads, cloudy sky, sun is up, and no current accidents, below are the travel times on northbound Highway 77 (Cedar Avenue) from Apple Valley, according to the official MnDOT web site:

T.H.77

I-35E to MN RIVER: 19 MIN (5 minutes with no traffic)
I-35E to HWY 62: 24 MIN (9 minutes with no traffic)
Mn/DOT Traveler Information

Objectively, this is a tough commute unless you work long hours or unusual hours.

Edit: At 8:20 a.m., we're down to 15 minutes and 20 minutes, respectively.

January 21, 2010, 7:25 a.m., weather.com current conditions are cloudy and 26 degrees--travel times on Highway 77:

T.H.77
I-35E to MN RIVER: 17 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: 22 MIN

Edit: At 7:46 a.m.:

I-35E to MN RIVER: OVER 20 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: OVER 30 MIN

I still haven't seen any accidents on the AV to MPLS route. Again, for comparison sake, Dale to 35W is 11 minutes and Earl to 35W is 20 minutes.

It was starting to mist on my way in this morning, but if there is precipitation, it is so small that it is undetectable or unreportable by local weather observation centers.

Edit: At 7:46 a.m.:

I-35E to MN RIVER: OVER 20 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: OVER 30 MIN

Edit: At 8:19 a.m., same commute times as 7:46 a.m. It was 5 minutes and 9 minutes, respectively, when I left this morning.

The Strib just ran an article about drizzle falling this morning. It should be noted that this drizzle is so light that it is not reported in the local weather conditions. Also note that this is two days in a row of a difficult winter commute WITHOUT measurable snowfall or ice.

On Tuesday, January 26, this should be an ideal winter driving day. With less than one inch of snow falling yesterday, the roads were only wet last night because of the chemicals applied by MnDOT trucks, and this morning the roads are dry. Temperatures are well over 0 degrees, meaning no possibility of black ice. There have been no accidents on Cedar Avenue this morning and there have been no accidents on any adjoining roads. At 6:30 a.m., the times were 5 minutes to the river and 10 minutes to Crosstown. At 7:27 a.m., below are the following times:

I-35E to MN RIVER: OVER 20 MIN
I-35E to HWY 62: OVER 35 MIN

Again, not your "10 minute" drive to Bloomington during rush hour. Anyone who is working normal business hours should consider additional commuting time in making a home-buying decision.

On a side note, anyone in Golden Valley in the Hopkins school district looking to do a house swap?

[west336]

SW is the worst IMO. I work 5 miles from my home and it can take as little as 10 minutes (ex. Sunday morning) to over 45 minutes (ex. snowy weeknight rush hour) -- the only road I really use is the Crosstown. The average commute in the winter is 20 minutes and in the summer 25-30 minutes. If I drive to Chicago I have to leave before 3:30 or the drive takes an extra 45 minutes to 2 hours -- and that's until I get to Chicago's nightmare of a traffic problem.

The primary issues in SW that could be addressed are:

Widening the Crosstown between 35W and hwy. 169 to three lanes in each direction. The reason this wasn't considered in the past was because the Crosstown between Xerxes and 35W is too narrow, but most of that has been alleviated due to the "Crosstown Commons" project, so I don't see what is stopping this from happening (except funding).

Widening I-494 to four lanes in each direction from Hwy. 100 to Cedar Ave. I know this is in the long-range plan but as long as there remain bottlenecks Westbound at Cedar and Eastbound at Hwy. 100 then it doesn't matter what the capacity is between the two because you have to squeeze to get in there. Make it 4 lanes from EP to the River.

Create "fly-overs" at Hwy. 169 and 35W. Both are logistical failures and I personally can't believe a government intersection (I-35 & I-494) is allowed to be this incompatible. By simply alleviating that exchange you could reduce traffic congestion on I-494 AND I-35W. Possibly re-working the France Ave. exit as well may be a good idea.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by west336

SW is the worst IMO. I work 5 miles from my home and it can take as little as 10 minutes (ex. Sunday morning) to over 45 minutes (ex. snowy weeknight rush hour) -- the only road I really use is the Crosstown. The average commute in the winter is 20 minutes and in the summer 25-30 minutes. If I drive to Chicago I have to leave before 3:30 or the drive takes an extra 45 minutes to 2 hours -- and that's until I get to Chicago's nightmare of a traffic problem.

The primary issues in SW that could be addressed are:

Widening the Crosstown between 35W and hwy. 169 to three lanes in each direction. The reason this wasn't considered in the past was because the Crosstown between Xerxes and 35W is too narrow, but most of that has been alleviated due to the "Crosstown Commons" project, so I don't see what is stopping this from happening (except funding).

Widening I-494 to four lanes in each direction from Hwy. 100 to Cedar Ave. I know this is in the long-range plan but as long as there remain bottlenecks Westbound at Cedar and Eastbound at Hwy. 100 then it doesn't matter what the capacity is between the two because you have to squeeze to get in there. Make it 4 lanes from EP to the River.

Create "fly-overs" at Hwy. 169 and 35W. Both are logistical failures and I personally can't believe a government intersection (I-35 & I-494) is allowed to be this incompatible. By simply alleviating that exchange you could reduce traffic congestion on I-494 AND I-35W. Possibly re-working the France Ave. exit as well may be a good idea.

A better solution: Leave the roads as-is and let nature take its course. As the commute becomes longer and longer, there will be less demand for the far-flung burbs and more demand for closer in neighborhoods. That'll spur some long-overdue redevelopment in city neighborhoods and first ring suburbs.

[TimtheGuy]

Since we are the 15th largest metro by population, 17th sounds about par for the course.