America's 75 Worst Commutes MPLS-St Paul #17 (Minneapolis, St. Paul: house, buying, construction)

[ozzie679]

America's 75 Worst Commutes - The Daily Beast

#17, I-494, Minneapolis-St. Paul
Weekly hours of bottleneck congestion: 184
Worst bottleneck: Westbound, Lyndale Ave/Exit 4
Length of worst bottleneck: .49 mi
Weekly hours of congestion on worst bottleneck: 32
Speed of worst bottleneck when congested: 19.8 mph

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Only #17? I agree, traffic flow on that freeway is horrendous during rush hour. Remember in a topic a few months back where we were arguing whether traffic was worse in the northern suburbs vs. the southern suburbs? After seeing this report and after the huge improvement on traffic flow on westbound HWY 10 after they extended the third lane from Foley to Hanson Blvd I would have to say DISADVANTAGE SOUTHERN SUBURBS

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by ozzie679

America's 75 Worst Commutes - The Daily Beast

#17, I-494, Minneapolis-St. Paul
Weekly hours of bottleneck congestion: 184
Worst bottleneck: Westbound, Lyndale Ave/Exit 4
Length of worst bottleneck: .49 mi
Weekly hours of congestion on worst bottleneck: 32
Speed of worst bottleneck when congested: 19.8 mph

Amazing that you post this. It's absolutely true WB @ Lyndale. I was just there yesterday and for the first time I noticed that an eight-lane freeway east of Portland becomes six lanes heading west. That's right, you lose a westbound lane heading INTO the busiest area. Brilliant.

[knke0204]

This isn't that big of a surprise, but very intesting to see the list, thanks Ozzie... Congestion numbers tend to correlate with the largest cities. MPLS_STP are about the 16th largest metro in the USA...

A little bit of public transportation, smaller vehicles, living closer to employment, carpooling, staggered work hours, and incentives/disincentives, effective growth patterns, and just thinking everytime "do I need to be driving here, right now?"...All of these combined will help with congestion. If and only if all of these are played through with effectiveness.

Expanding and building roads is NOT the answer. Some cases it would help, but for the most part it's just more a driver to, uh, make you drive (pun intended)

[knke0204]

The I-94 corridor from the Maple Grove split westbound to about Monticello is just rediculous. They really need to do something about that. Just too many people relying on one corridor. (I know I said building more is actually less, but I-610, and a third lane from Rogers to past Monticello would be a huge relief. From HWY 169 in Brooklyn Park, west bound to Albertville, it takes nearly 45 minutes in rush hour.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by knke0204

The I-94 corridor from the Maple Grove split westbound to about Monticello is just rediculous. They really need to do something about that. Just too many people relying on one corridor. (I know I said building more is actually less, but I-610, and a third lane from Rogers to past Monticello would be a huge relief. From HWY 169 in Brooklyn Park, west bound to Albertville, it takes nearly 45 minutes in rush hour.

I would say this is a VERY close second to the 494 one posted except that the length of time stuck in traffic here is much worse because it goes on for a longer stretch of the road. Much of the 494 problem right now is the construction. The nice this is there are several alternate routes that you can EASILY avoid this congestion. The commute into the city from the southern suburbs is MUCH easier then coming from the north. The roads from the south carry a lot of traffic but it MOVES along just fine (with the exception of this 1/2 mile stretch of 494. Traffic ANYWHERE in the Twin Cities is NOTHING compared to other major metro areas like Boston, LA, etc.

[Cruz Azul Guy]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I would say this is a VERY close second to the 494 one posted except that the length of time stuck in traffic here is much worse because it goes on for a longer stretch of the road. Much of the 494 problem right now is the construction. The nice this is there are several alternate routes that you can EASILY avoid this congestion. The commute into the city from the southern suburbs is MUCH easier then coming from the north. The roads from the south carry a lot of traffic but it MOVES along just fine (with the exception of this 1/2 mile stretch of 494. Traffic ANYWHERE in the Twin Cities is NOTHING compared to other major metro areas like Boston, LA, etc.

Yeah, you're right. The commute from the south must be better. Not a single road from the northern suburbs made the 75 worst commutes list though...strange.

[AVguy]

At 8:00 a.m. this morning, with no snow or rain on the roads, cloudy sky, sun is up, and no current accidents, below are the travel times on northbound Highway 77 (Cedar Avenue) from Apple Valley, according to the official MnDOT web site:

T.H.77

I-35E to MN RIVER: 19 MIN (5 minutes with no traffic)
I-35E to HWY 62: 24 MIN (9 minutes with no traffic)

Mn/DOT Traveler Information

Objectively, this is a tough commute unless you work long hours or unusual hours.


Edit: At 8:20 a.m., we're down to 15 minutes and 20 minutes, respectively.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by AVguy

At 8:00 a.m. this morning, with no snow or rain on the roads, cloudy sky, sun is up, and no current accidents, below are the travel times on northbound Highway 77 (Cedar Avenue) from Apple Valley, according to the official MnDOT web site:

T.H.77

I-35E to MN RIVER: 19 MIN (5 minutes with no traffic)
I-35E to HWY 62: 24 MIN (9 minutes with no traffic)

Mn/DOT Traveler Information

Objectively, this is a tough commute unless you work long hours or unusual hours.


Edit: At 8:20 a.m., we're down to 15 minutes and 20 minutes, respectively.

Do you actually drive this route at this time? I drive up Cedar nearly every day and unless there is an accident it has NEVER taken anywhere near 19 minutes to go from 35 to the river. Something must have been going on this morning. When we get off at McAndrews the sign never reads more than 11 minutes to the river and even then it doesn't take that long. Traffic on Cedar during rush hour still moves at 65 MPH barring accidents and bad weather.

[AVguy]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Do you actually drive this route at this time? I drive up Cedar nearly every day and unless there is an accident it has NEVER taken anywhere near 19 minutes to go from 35 to the river. Something must have been going on this morning. When we get off at McAndrews the sign never reads more than 11 minutes to the river and even then it doesn't take that long. Traffic on Cedar during rush hour still moves at 65 MPH barring accidents and bad weather.

No, I'm more of a 6:00-6:30 a.m. guy. At that time, most days it's 5 minutes to the river and 9 or 10 minutes to Crosstown. One thing to keep in mind about those estimated times is that the beginning point is at 35E, not County 42 or McAndrews, and clearly Highway 77 will back up well before 35E. I find that MnDOT travel times are fairly close and are often the average time between through traffic and exiting traffic.

In fairness, I don't know whether an accident on 77 or 62 caused a backup today. The 24 minutes to Crosstown seems a little atypical, but I have left after 7:30 a.m. on some days and added another 5-15 minutes to my commute, not including snow days. For an average driver on a snow day or black ice day, which occurs maybe 10-15 days in the winter, unless you leave before 6:30 a.m., the estimated times are always "OVER 20 MINS" to the river and "OVER 40 MINS" to Crosstown. (Is "OVER 40 MINS" equal to 50 minutes or 150 minutes? I have had 90-minute commutes when a 25-to-30-minute commute is the norm.)

As you mentioned in the St. Paul Park thread, there's only one way out of town (Highway 61). Departing Apple Valley, there are a few different ways north (35E to 110 to 55, 35E to 494 to 77, side streets west to 35W, Pilot Knob to 13 to 55), but these detour routes tend not to be any faster or more direct than Highway 77, and often you have already committed yourself on a limited-access highway such that turning around is not an option.

If I remember tomorrow, I'll check the commute times during normal commuting hours. Assuming that we don't get the ice that the weather people thought that we'd get, tomorrow should be another "typcial" winter commuting day out of the south metro. I don't mean to complain, but after living here 3.5 years, I've seen the best and worst of south metro commuting. I know that I was overly optimistic about commute times when I was looking to buy a house that I could afford for my growing family and that was close to my wife's work (to spare one of us a bad commute), but my commute time is definitely something that I'll consider more carefully when buying the next house, especially since our change in working arrangements.

(A guy who used to post here, SlyFrog, at one time was timing his commutes with a stopwatch and found that the commute time from the south metro was typically much longer than expected. This is a very good idea for anyone moving to a new area.)