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I think he'll stay. Mauer's situation is a LOT different then Johan's was. Santana was a total sellout. The Twins offered him all kinds of money, but he wanted to leave anyways for the big bucks of New York. And it truely was all about the money. The Pohlads made a legit offer of 5 years 95 mill., but he want more, way more.
.
Yet instead of saying so, he made all kinds of excuses after he left: "I want to play for a world series contendor, be close to a larger Hispanic community, etc., etc."
.
Now look at him. He plays for the lowly Mets and is no closer to the playoffs or the world series then he was with Minnesota. In fact all he does have is his money. But thats it. Santana was greedy and stupid. Mauer is hometown grown, down to earth and a heck of a lot smarter. He has no reason to want to leave. A deal will get done.
Now look at him. He plays for the lowly Mets and is no closer to the playoffs or the world series then he was with Minnesota. In fact all he does have is his money. But thats it. Santana was greedy and stupid.
Yep, look at him now.
He makes more money playing in a place he likes better. Oh, the stupidity!
Meanwhile, he's collected just as many rings in New York as his former teammates have with the Twins. Which is to say, zero.
Not that I care whether the Twin, the Mets or someone else wins this year's World Series, I just find it hilarious that people have to make enemies out of athletes who choose to play elsewhere and have to insist that signing somewhere else isn't in that player's best interest.
Just like with Favre. I don't know who is more pathetic, some Packer fun who thinks Favre is a "traitor" or some Vikings fan who couldn't enjoy the 2009 season because Favre was the "enemy". I guess they're more or less equally pathetic!
Some players are happier here. Some are happier elsewhere. That's just life. And, believe it or not, that's all right. And it's really not an attack on Minnesota, as much as it may hurt your pride.
I think he'll stay. Mauer's situation is a LOT different then Johan's was. Santana was a total sellout. The Twins offered him all kinds of money, but he wanted to leave anyways for the big bucks of New York. And it truely was all about the money. The Pohlads made a legit offer of 5 years 95 mill., but he want more, way more.
.
Yet instead of saying so, he made all kinds of excuses after he left: "I want to play for a world series contendor, be close to a larger Hispanic community, etc., etc."
.
Now look at him. He plays for the lowly Mets and is no closer to the playoffs or the world series then he was with Minnesota. In fact all he does have is his money. But thats it. Santana was greedy and stupid. Mauer is hometown grown, down to earth and a heck of a lot smarter. He has no reason to want to leave. A deal will get done.
Can you honestly blame Johan? You could make an similar argument that he'd be stupid not to accept a much more lucrative contract to play elsewhere. What allegiance did he owe Minnesota? He isn't from Minnesota and if I remember right it didn't help in the negotiations that we failed to resign Johan's best friend on the team and fellow Venezuelan, Carlos Silva. If the Twins organization should have made a bigger push to keep a player it would've been Torri Hunter...we simply couldn't afford to keep Johan and the Twins intelligently traded him away for future prospects when they knew resigning him wasn't going to be a possibility instead of losing him for nothing in free agency.
Can you honestly blame Johan? You could make an similar argument that he'd be stupid not to accept a much more lucrative contract to play elsewhere. What allegiance did he owe Minnesota? He isn't from Minnesota and if I remember right it didn't help in the negotiations that we failed to resign Johan's best friend on the team and fellow Venezuelan, Carlos Silva. If the Twins organization should have made a bigger push to keep a player it would've been Torri Hunter...we simply couldn't afford to keep Johan and the Twins intelligently traded him away for future prospects when they knew resigning him wasn't going to be a possibility instead of losing him for nothing in free agency.
Allegiance? I guess bringing him along in the minor league system, supplying him with a roof over his head, coaches to develop him, and the resources to turn him into a major league pitcher doesnt mean much. He was a Rule V draftee by the Twins. (actually Marlins, but the Twins had a deal with the Marlins that said they would trade FOR Johan). Rule V's are almost dead in-the-water prospects. Also, when the Twins got Johan they were an embarassing team. They had almost the lowest payroll in the league. Johan was overlooked by almost every team, with just the lowly Twins signing him. Johan was a center fielder turned pitcher, and was actually a bullpen pitcher turned Starter.
If it wasnt for the Twins pathetic rotations througouht the early 2000s, he may have never had the chance to return to a starting role. I think with that, he owes a little bit of allegiance. But, once you become a big fish and you're stuck in a small pond, it sometimes is the best idea to go see how the other ponds work.
Hunter is tough, but I think it worked out for the best. Denard is a Torii like prospect coming up, and they knew it was a matter of time before they brought him along or let him go. I think a few years from now Denard will be a bigger name in MLB than Torii. Torii's getting old, and I think his best years are behind him.
Allegiance? I guess bringing him along in the minor league system, supplying him with a roof over his head, coaches to develop him, and the resources to turn him into a major league pitcher doesnt mean much. He was a Rule V draftee by the Twins. (actually Marlins, but the Twins had a deal with the Marlins that said they would trade FOR Johan). Rule V's are almost dead in-the-water prospects. Also, when the Twins got Johan they were an embarassing team. They had almost the lowest payroll in the league. Johan was overlooked by almost every team, with just the lowly Twins signing him. Johan was a center fielder turned pitcher, and was actually a bullpen pitcher turned Starter.
If it wasnt for the Twins pathetic rotations througouht the early 2000s, he may have never had the chance to return to a starting role. I think with that, he owes a little bit of allegiance. But, once you become a big fish and you're stuck in a small pond, it sometimes is the best idea to go see how the other ponds work.
Hunter is tough, but I think it worked out for the best. Denard is a Torii like prospect coming up, and they knew it was a matter of time before they brought him along or let him go. I think a few years from now Denard will be a bigger name in MLB than Torii. Torii's getting old, and I think his best years are behind him.
Let's put it this way, if US Bank came to you and offered to pay you $20k/year over what Wells Fargo pays you to do the same job, would you accept it, or would you feel obliged to stay at Wells Fargo? Don't give me any allegiance BS, you know you'd go to the other bank...and I don't think anybody would blame you one bit for doing so. I'd say Johan's situation would be similar to this.
Allegiance? I guess bringing him along in the minor league system, supplying him with a roof over his head, coaches to develop him, and the resources to turn him into a major league pitcher doesnt mean much. He was a Rule V draftee by the Twins. (actually Marlins, but the Twins had a deal with the Marlins that said they would trade FOR Johan). Rule V's are almost dead in-the-water prospects. Also, when the Twins got Johan they were an embarassing team. They had almost the lowest payroll in the league. Johan was overlooked by almost every team, with just the lowly Twins signing him. Johan was a center fielder turned pitcher, and was actually a bullpen pitcher turned Starter.
You are correct, he owes no allegiance. In 2003, Santana won 12 games while making $335,000, far below the major league average in $/win. Did the Twins "owe" him the average $ made per win in the major leagues that year? Of course not - they owed him what his contract called for. They did their part, he did his part. In 2004, he won a Cy Young while making $1.6 million. That's right, he was one of the major league elites while making 60% of the average MLB salary for that year. Did the Twins "owe" him a massive bonus payment to bring his salary for that year up to elite levels? No, they just owed him his contractual salary. Even in 2006, when he made almost $9 million, the Twins were more than getting their money's worth as he turned in the first major league pitching triple crown in over two decades. Did the Twins "owe" him a higher salary than any pitcher that year? No, they just owed him what they were obligated per his contract to pay him.
The Twins literally spent years getting far more value out of Santana than they paid for - and they didn't owe him anything more than what he received. And I don't hear you shedding any years for him over that. Nor do I. It's business. But for all the added value the Twins got out of Santana, here you are complaining that he should have given them more. Why, because they saw a chance to make money by drafting him? Please, quit acting like they did him a favor. They saw a chance to make a wise business decision, and they took it. It worked out beautifully for the Twins. Once the last contract was up, the Twins owed Johan Santana nothing, and Johan Santana owed the Twins nothing.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,083,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig
Let's put it this way, if US Bank came to you and offered to pay you $20k/year over what Wells Fargo pays you to do the same job, would you accept it, or would you feel obliged to stay at Wells Fargo? Don't give me any allegiance BS, you know you'd go to the other bank...and I don't think anybody would blame you one bit for doing so. I'd say Johan's situation would be similar to this.
$20k wouldn't be enough if I liked where I was. What other bennies would get thrown in?
$20k wouldn't be enough if I liked where I was. What other bennies would get thrown in?
Ok, my example isn't applicable to everybody but it would be for an entry level banking/finance guy like knkne. For you I'd say 40% increase with the option of not having to move out of your Atlanta suburb or having the option to move back to the Twin Cities, so how about it? Do you really like your current job that much?
Ok, my example isn't applicable to everybody but it would be for an entry level banking/finance guy like knkne. For you I'd say 40% increase with the option of not having to move out of your Atlanta suburb or having the option to move back to the Twin Cities, so how about it? Do you really like your current job that much?
Better yet, you're an American and your current job is in Minsk, where not many people speak your native English. It's a cold continental climate. It has roughly 3 million people (a little smaller than the Twin Cities, but close enough). The new job offer is in London. Not your native country, but still a lot of English speakers and a lot of people from the United States. Coastal climate, winters aren't as harsh, 13 million people (somewhat smaller than New York, but still analagous) and tons, tons more to do.
And the 40% raise.
Unless you think you owe the First National Bank of Belarus your allegiance for giving you your break in finance...
Let's put it this way, if US Bank came to you and offered to pay you $20k/year over what Wells Fargo pays you to do the same job, would you accept it, or would you feel obliged to stay at Wells Fargo? Don't give me any allegiance BS, you know you'd go to the other bank...and I don't think anybody would blame you one bit for doing so. I'd say Johan's situation would be similar to this.
haha, yeah I'd be cashing in my WF red for US BANK blue in a heartbeat!
I was just saying that we shouldn't say he had NO allegiance to the Twins, they did give him a chance when arguably no one else would have, but I don't blame him for leaving. I also don't blame Torii either, they did what they had to do.... It's much different for Mauer though, as stated, he's got his family, friends, etc. here.
It's sort of sad to think of how much a business pro sports are, it seems somewhat contradictory or something...
The star I am most bitter about is the Timberwolves and Glen Taylor. Although KG hasn't been the same since he left-pretty much because he doesn't HAVE to since the Celtics got him some help, unlike the Wolves where the biggest help they gave him was Sam Cassel and Latrell Sprewell.. The Wolves got beat by a better Laker team in 2004, where they would have made it to the NBA finals had they not lost. This should have been an inclination or a heads up to Glen to build a team. but, June after June came, and the wolves had crap pick after crap pick. The Timberwolves haven't had a good draft since they took Stephon Marbury. Kevin Love still doesn't impress me.
Kevin Garnett
Johan Santana
Randy Moss
Torii Hunter
Marion Gaborik
All left because of failure to pay or failure to build. (Randy, not so much, as the TWIN CITIES media market pretty much portrayed him as an evil do-er, and he was embraced by Boston)
edit: The Wolves didn't draft Marbury, but they drafted Ray Allen. An even better pick and player than Marbury ever turned out, as Marbury is making $300,000 this year to play in a Chinese league where they play in gyms similar to American High schools.
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