Perception of the Cities (Minneapolis, Grant: new home, quality of life, to live)

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

55414 has a lot more than just the U, though (or undergrads, for that matter), and if anything those numbers (given that it's a state university) could skew things in favor of being born in the state.

I don't know what the stats are - but reciprocity brings a lot of people from the Midwest (especially Wisconsin) to the U of M (along with sending a lot of Minnesota people to Wisconsin and other places) to the point where it might actually represent Minnesota less than a typical state school would - although obviously students are still mostly Minnesotans. I don't know what other sort of reciprocity agreements other states are, but I never heard of PA having any. It's an obviously huge draw to get to experience something new and live in a big city while still paying in-state tuition. I don't know if they changed it, but when I went to the U kids from Wisconsin actually paid less to go to the U than Minnesotans did.

I don't know where the zip code ends exactly, but the Saint Anthony Main area and the condos near the river would be the other big draw for out-of-staters, I suppose.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

55414 has a lot more than just the U, though (or undergrads, for that matter), and if anything those numbers (given that it's a state university) could skew things in favor of being born in the state. I get your point, though, and generally would agree that many of these zip codes are also more transient with more people moving both in and out.

It's true that that doesn't help people who prefer a more suburban environment. I think the percentages of people born in the state is changing there, too; the Twin Cities of today are no longer some provincial outpost.
Born in MN:
Crystal: 66%
Orono: 60%
Chaska: 62%
Apple Valley: 58%
Shoreview: 69% (wow, that is pretty high!)
White Bear Lake: 74% (okay, even higher -- maybe this heavily varies by part of metro)
Cottage Grove -- 73%

Maybe the message here is that percentage of people from other states varies tremendously even among suburbs of similar "types." My experience is mostly with Mpls and the SW suburb, so I was kind of surprised at how much those numbers varied heading out the other direction. I still don't think Minnesotans are inherently not open to new friends, but do agree that it's probably easier somewhere where more of your neighbors and people you'll meet in the community aren't already maxed out, time-wise, with lots of family and old friend obligations.


American Community Survey

Shoreview and White Bear Lake don't surprise me all that much. There have been a few stories about how the schools in that area are rapidly losing students not because of people moving but because of people NOT moving, getting older, kids graduating and no younger families moving in. Just not getting the turnover there right now. Give those communities a few more years and that might change pretty fast.

[QuantumIguana]

There's not much chance of any sort of honest dialogue with people who insist on passing off outrageous anecdotes as if they were typical. The plural of anecodte is not data.

[Glenfield]

This is all very interesting. Having moved to Minnesota over 30 years ago, I can perhaps see this question of friendliness from the standpoint of the more recent transplants and the natives. I think both are to some degree correct in their perceptions. It is somewhat difficult to break into society here. I do not at all believe that this is because Minnesotans are unfriendly. What we are, and what the transplants may not appreciate, is reserved. We are not gregarious nor overly demonstrative. I believe that this stems from certain cultural norms that have to do with a largely northern European heritage. I like this about Minnesota. I came here from a city with more of a southern European heritage. It was very different. Friendships were perhaps struck more easily but they really weren't that deep. After I moved here, I didn't make close friendships until I began to take my Christian faith more seriously and became an active part of my church community. What I found is that friendships based on work, school, neighborhood etc. cannot compare in depth to those that are based on deeply held shared values and beliefs.

As to whether or not anyone has ever identified me as a transplant from my (non-Scandinavian) name, the answer is no and I have never, ever heard of such a thing.

[Avindair]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

As to whether or not anyone has ever identified me as a transplant from my (non-Scandinavian) name, the answer is no and I have never, ever heard of such a thing.

Interesting. I've made this story clear on this forum some time ago. I've had to defend it against constant questions of its authenticity (a delight, that) to individuals here. Yet this statement is made.

Wow.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by Avindair

Interesting. I've made this story clear on this forum some time ago. I've had to defend it against constant questions of its authenticity (a delight, that) to individuals here. Yet this statement is made.

Wow.

The fact that most people in the state, native Minnesotans and people born elsewhere alike, don't have Scandinavian last names yet have never had this problem seems to suggest that if people are saying things like this to you that it's because of some factor other than name alone. Maybe a strong regional accept that comes out when you pronounce your name, or something along those lines? Unless you have a very, very unusual name or else want to use a foreign title (Count or Sir or or something). That's really the only clear indication I can think of, name-wise, that would suggest to anyone that you're not originally from Minnesota (or the US, for that matter).

Scandinavian names aren't the norm here, either, (although obviously more common than in other parts of the country, but that still doesn't mean that everyone has one!) and most people probably can't even identify what's Scandinavian or not, other than the most stereotypical examples (Larson, Hanson, etc.)

[Avindair]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

The fact that most people in the state, native Minnesotans and people born elsewhere alike, don't have Scandinavian last names yet have never had this problem seems to suggest that if people are saying things like this to you that it's because of some factor other than name alone.

I agree that it makes no bloody sense whatsoever. Doesn't stop it from being:

• Insulting
• Distancing
• Off-Putting
• Frustrating

One of the reasons I love to leave the region is that it ceases to be an issue. It always becomes an issue again upon arrival here.

If I were rude, confrontational, or unpleasant, I'd offer that up as an explanation. I'm not. Indeed, years of being a Military Brat and being a veteran myself taught me to be courteous wherever I'm headed. The issue, therefore, appears to be an immediate connection with my name, and the fact that it clearly doesn't belong to the region.

Scandinavian names aren't the norm here, either...

They are, however, exceedingly common. So much so that I would argue that they form a baseline expectation of what is "normal".

As I stated before, it's frustrating, insulting, and off-putting. It's also, honestly, one of the myriad of reasons that we're leaving the area.

What I find fascinating is that I constantly have to defend this issue that I encounter as not being a genuine phenomenon.

Maybe it's time to haul my video camera around with me...

Best regards.

[G33kGoddess]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

The fact that most people in the state, native Minnesotans and people born elsewhere alike, don't have Scandinavian last names yet have never had this problem seems to suggest that if people are saying things like this to you that it's because of some factor other than name alone. Maybe a strong regional accept that comes out when you pronounce your name, or something along those lines? Unless you have a very, very unusual name or else want to use a foreign title (Count or Sir or or something). That's really the only clear indication I can think of, name-wise, that would suggest to anyone that you're not originally from Minnesota (or the US, for that matter).

I'm Avindair's wife. Unlike my husband, I was born and raised in North Dakota. I'm of Northern European heritage (mostly Norwegian, Irish, and Scot). My physical appearance is what would be considered mainstream for someone of this heritage in this region. Our last name contains no title, it's short, requires no regional accent to pronounce, and is very common in other parts of the United States and in certain other countries.

However, on many occasions - in my children's schools, out shopping, in social situations, in job interviews, and in the workplace - it's often been said to me with a dubious/suspicious look, "<Last Name>... you're not from around here are you?" Usually followed by a distinct shift in attitude - colder, more distant.

I've also lived in Colorado and Germany. I've visited many parts of the United States (north and south, from coast to coast) and Europe. Only occasionally have I been presented with the same question, but with a completely different attitude. It was said with open, friendly curiosity, and always followed up with a getting-to-know you exchange. Something that in 12 years here has never been my experience.

[audadvnc]

Originally Posted by G33kGoddess

...it's often been said to me with a dubious/suspicious look, "<Last Name>... you're not from around here are you?" Usually followed by a distinct shift in attitude - colder, more distant...

With a name like G33kGoddess, what would you expect? Love your screen name! Dunno why your neighbors are such nasty stuck-up people, I've seen a bit of that over the years. I just figured they weren't getting any...

[G33kGoddess]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

Dunno why your neighbors are such nasty stuck-up people, I've seen a bit of that over the years. I just figured they weren't getting any...

Actually our next-door neighbors... literally next-door ... are very nice people, but they live next to us and know us as good neighbors, too. But I definitely see where you were going with that!

Oh, and thanks for the screen name compliment.