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Old 04-01-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: An overgrown 350K person suburb of Saint Paul
383 posts, read 815,402 times
Reputation: 248

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Has that ever been considered before?
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Here
413 posts, read 790,437 times
Reputation: 222
I have no doubt it has and the simple answer is that , NO, they will never merge. When you take into account the logistics of such an undertaking piled on top of two independent board and council along with necessary changes in city charter and legislation at the state for this to occur, it will never happen. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't given the efficiencies in merging the two entitites.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:17 PM
 
Location: An overgrown 350K person suburb of Saint Paul
383 posts, read 815,402 times
Reputation: 248
It might make sense for both counties because of the following:

1. Being the largest city in MN and the second largest city in the Upper Midwest would make Saint Paul-Ramsey get more federal and state funds that go towards redevelopment and political influence for the entire area. Imagine the pull we'll have as a state if our state capital is one of the country's biggest cities instead of being overshadowed by a more important city to the west.

2. STP pretty much takes up all of Ramsey county anyway by landmass, economy and by population. STP has 300K people, give or take 25K, which is about 3/5ths of Ramsey County's population. It also contains most of Ramsey County's economy. Pretty much, Ramsey County is STP. A lot of Ramsey County offices such as the sheriff and county commissioners offices are pretty much cerimonial because like I said, Ramsey county is STP. It's because Ramsey county was designed to be somewhat of a state capital district a la the District of Colubmia when it was carved out.

It probably won't happen. The state's laws are written to specifically make annexation difficult if not impossible. That's why the core TC are so small compared to other cities in similar metros.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: MN
3,858 posts, read 8,508,996 times
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I don't think it's so much of a 'merger' as it is annexation.

COLDRED, your last sentence is perfect, that's exactly why the land areas of MPLS and STP are so tiny compared to cities of similar magnitude. For instance, LA has over 300 sq miles, and MPLS is only 56!

Had there not been such intense annexation laws, cities like St. Anthony, Falcon Heights, So. STP, W. STP, NO. STP, Hilltop, Columbia Heights, and Robbinsdale, probably wouldn't exsist.

The whole idea of annexation is the feasibility of Public Service provision. The larger a city gets, the more land they have to cover. When providing public services over such a large area, there can be disparities that will cause either over provision or under provision in some cases. Keeping the larger cities smaller in size, allows for better management of public services, such as upkeep, maintenance, police, fire, water sewer, etc.

I think its' safe to say that residents of Robbinsdale have differnce social characteristics and lifestyles than those in St. Louis Park, even though the two cities both border MPLS, and are about 5 miles from each other. So, in turn, Robbinsdale and St. Louis Park both have different types of taxes and types of public service provsion.

This is much of the reason why you see White Bear Township, one of the last standing metro area townships. Actually, it's really unique because it's a township that's almost nearly surrounded by municipalities. Often times, residents of Townships DONT want to become annexed or incorporated into a municipality. This results in higher taxes while still getting the same kind of service.

For example, when the town I grew up in was Annexed and incorporated, my parents started to have to pay for Street Lights, which was $5.50 a month to the city. Did we have street lights? No, but we were part of the 'city' and our fee's contributed to the overall aspect of the city. They also were told that they needed to close up their septic tank and pay to get hooked up to city water and sewer. This costed them tons of money, even though the benefits they received were minimal.

This is happening and has been happening for years with the whole Hassan Township and City of Rogers debate. Hassan residents don't want to be incorporated, but it's gotten to the point that the land Hassan sits on is Valuable for increasing traffic flow in the Twin Cities and the northwest metro. It's sandwhiched similar to how White Bear is, but is rural, unlike White Bear Township and it's one of the last, if not the Last Township in Hennepin County.

What I've never understood is the whole N. STP, W. STP, and S. STP. Why not make them all STP?
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:32 AM
 
1,080 posts, read 2,048,115 times
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Even though it would never happen, I think it would be best if St. Paul annexed certain cities, not all of Ramsey County. Maplewood, North St. Paul, Little Canada, Falcon Heights, and possible Roseville would fit in nicely with St. Paul; Shoreview and North Oaks not so much. Plus I can guarantee you there is no way in hell White Bear Lake will ever be annexed by anyone - the people there would go berserk.

I think it would be best if North Oaks, Mounds View, Shoreview, and Arden Hills were brought into Anoka county and White Bear Lake, Vadnais Heights, and White Bear Township were shifted into Washington County.

That way St. Paul could annex the rest of Ramsey County and could grow in size and stature which would be good for the state as a whole. Throw West St Paul and South St Paul in as well while you're at it.

This will never happen, but it would be best. As it stands nowthough, there is too much of a culture gap between people in Ramsey County north and south of 694 for this to work.
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:20 PM
 
Location: An overgrown 350K person suburb of Saint Paul
383 posts, read 815,402 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Even though it would never happen, I think it would be best if St. Paul annexed certain cities, not all of Ramsey County. Maplewood, North St. Paul, Little Canada, Falcon Heights, and possible Roseville would fit in nicely with St. Paul; Shoreview and North Oaks not so much. Plus I can guarantee you there is no way in hell White Bear Lake will ever be annexed by anyone - the people there would go berserk.

Yeah, folks in White Bear Lake folks would flip their SUVs over in traffic as soon as they heard they were a part of the big city. The only thing that would save them from dying is the massive amount of bodyfat they built up from all those years of spaghetti and pepperoni hotdish they ate since high school cushioning their internal organs.
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:01 PM
 
1,080 posts, read 2,048,115 times
Reputation: 597
No, it's just that the WBL has way too much community pride to ever become a part of another city. Big city or not, the year in White Bear I spent showed me that the people up there are extremelly protective of their town. But yea, a lot of them also pride themselves in being very outdoorsy and "country" so living in St. Paul wouldn't go over too well either.
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