Shutdown maybe over !! (Minneapolis, Dakota: middle-class, credit, to buy)

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by barney_rubble

Two questions have been raised here:
Is the current level of spending necessary to achieve these benefits?
Should some members of society be asked to contribute a greater percentage of their income to government than others?

Please provide evidence that the level of school funding you support is necessary to provide education.

States that skimp on school funding rank among the worst in the nation for education. For example, Arizona, Georgia, Texas and South Carolina spend little on schools, and they have abysmal education systems.

What's more, states that don't fund schools also have high crime and poverty rates. I'm not saying that this proves that poor schools cause crime (correlation doesn't prove causation), but I can't imagine that having an abysmal education system promote societal well being.

[barney_rubble]

Originally Posted by northstar22

States that skimp on school funding rank among the worst in the nation for education. For example, Arizona, Georgia, Texas and South Carolina spend little on schools, and they have abysmal education systems.

What's more, states that don't fund schools also have high crime and poverty rates. I'm not saying that this proves that poor schools cause crime (correlation doesn't prove causation), but I can't imagine that having an abysmal education system promote societal well being.

You are correct that correlation doesn't imply causation.

In order to prepare a counterargument, could you please provide a source for your claims relating to the quality of education in different states?

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by northstar22

States that skimp on school funding rank among the worst in the nation for education. For example, Arizona, Georgia, Texas and South Carolina spend little on schools, and they have abysmal education systems.

What's more, states that don't fund schools also have high crime and poverty rates. I'm not saying that this proves that poor schools cause crime (correlation doesn't prove causation), but I can't imagine that having an abysmal education system promote societal well being.

We have discussed this on numerous occasions on this forum, but demographic differences (racial make-up, primarily) accounts for the differences in test scores, etc. If you control for race, you will find that schools in Minnesota probably are not as "superior" as you think.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by kooks35

Keep in mind that the rich got their money by providing someone a product at a better value than others were able to. They've already benefited society and there was no force involved.

Can you cite any kind of source for this assertion? Most of the folks with money that I know came from money.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by barney_rubble

You are correct that correlation doesn't imply causation.

In order to prepare a counterargument, could you please provide a source for your claims relating to the quality of education in different states?

Feel free to do a search on any type of educational standard-graduation rates, college testing scores, etc. and you will see that the southern states, who have low funding ratios, rank in the bottom 10% in every category related to education. States with high taxes and an educated population (MN, WI, IA, MA, VA have excellent schools, excellent results from their schools). Better yet, go spend a week in any of these low performing states-Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama and it won't take long to figure out that the schools there just are NOT very good.

[DeeDubb]

"Frickin' Republicans. Gov. Dayton has tried to work with them, has tried to compromise, and they just wouldn't budge on their far-right economic agenda."

That quote's enough to tell me not to read the rest of your comment. You can't be serious. The legislature gave the governor a balanced budget, which he agreed like 90% to...and he chose to veto it. He did not compromise on anything until the end when he saw public opinion was against him.

[barney_rubble]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Feel free to do a search on any type of educational standard-graduation rates, college testing scores, etc. and you will see that the southern states, who have low funding ratios, rank in the bottom 10% in every category related to education. States with high taxes and an educated population (MN, WI, IA, MA, VA have excellent schools, excellent results from their schools). Better yet, go spend a week in any of these low performing states-Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama and it won't take long to figure out that the schools there just are NOT very good.

WingInstitute > NAEP Scores vs. Funding by State

The correlation is modest. But I can think of another factor that might explain it:

WingInstitute > Are Student Achievement and Poverty Related?

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Feel free to do a search on any type of educational standard-graduation rates, college testing scores, etc. and you will see that the southern states, who have low funding ratios, rank in the bottom 10% in every category related to education. States with high taxes and an educated population (MN, WI, IA, MA, VA have excellent schools, excellent results from their schools). Better yet, go spend a week in any of these low performing states-Missouri, Mississippi, Alabama and it won't take long to figure out that the schools there just are NOT very good.

Get real. Minnesota is plain vanilla compared to Mississippi and Alabama. You guys like to say you are progressive and say Southerners are racists and so on. The reality is that they are totally different worlds. To sit there and say that schools in those states can't educate people is ignorant. There are a lot more issues in those states. It's not low taxes. It's demographics. Why don't we compare the top students in all these states... I guarantee you (i.e., it is literally impossible) that you cannot find a single Minnesotan with higher test scores than I had, and I grew up in the South. I get really sick of listening to this crap. Minnesota doesn't even spend top money on their schools (compared to other states), so you can't attribute higher average test scores to more money spent on students.

If there is one thing that irks me to no end, it is Minnesotans bragging about how much better their schools are than everywhere else. It's called an inferiority complex.

[southernsmoke]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Can you cite any kind of source for this assertion? Most of the folks with money that I know came from money.

Even if all people with money inherited it, we would still benefit from having people who can invest large sums of money in enterprises which actually do make everyone's lives better. We actually need rich people in order to continue to progress as a society.

[freezengirl]

Sure seems to be a lot of smoke being blown in Minnesota the last few years and politicos trying to convince us that the poison is just good old fashioned kool-aid. Minnesotan's are a level headed, independent and EDUCATED population on the whole, eventually they will remember the roots of their greatness and make the decisons that are right for themselves.