I need to comment on this MN Nice=fake thing (Minneapolis: movie theater, title)

[Minneapolitan]

UU, I do respect what you're saying about the friend thing, but all in all, I do disagree. If someone close to me asks what I think of their coat, I'm assuming they want to know the truth about my feelings...so, therefore, I oblige in most cases. Not saying that I would be rude about it, but I might say something like, I don't think it's your color, or maybe it doesn't fit right. My friends usually come to me when they want truth. Apparently it's hard to find a friend like me, they say. Lol

Admittedly, I do like to know lots about whoever I meet. I ask lots of questions, and answer candidly when asked questions. I'm not going to give out my life story, but I might share political beliefs. For me, I don't like to waste time figuring out if I'm gonna get along with certain people.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Minneapolitan

I'm glad you hold this as a virtue. I think it goes far in dealing with other folks who may communicate on different levels. It, however, does not mean that it gives me a free pass to be passive, aggressive, or passive aggressive back to them, just because they communicated with me that way. I (and i would guess most physchologists) still hold assertiveness as the best policy in most cases, no matter how someone may communicate with me.

I simply do not accept your characterization of two faced behavior as "Minnesota Nice." They are completely different things. Minnesota Nice simply means that just because I am polite and friendly towards you, I don't necessarily want to be your new BFF. That is not passive-aggressive behavior. I am sorry that you think it is but... how can I put this directly??.... you are completely wrong. Not even close.

As to your assertion that assertiveness is the "best policy" if you think this is really the case, try using this tactic the next time your mother-in-law cooks something that tastes awful, or wears are dress that looks like a clown suit. Just come right out and say so! Don't beat around the bush or hem and haw. Remember...assertiveness is the best policy!

[Cleverfield]

There seems to be some confusion about what Minnesota nice really means. I'll give you an example of what I think of as Minnesota nice is. I was getting my hair cut at a small haircut place in a small town south of the Twin Cities. A guy came in asking if he could get a haircut, without having an appointment. The owner made some comment about how he came in without an appointment, but when he said sorry, she said, "oh that's fine, I don't mind." Then she was really nice to him, making jokes, and making small talk. As soon as he left she started talking about him to the other employee, "can you believe how rude he was? What a brat etc., etc." yet, she gave no indication that she was annoyed directly to him. She said something to him about it, but in a passive way, and then denied that she was really annoyed. That, to me, is the essence Minnesota nice. Never show or tell someone how you really feel even if you're annoyed at them. Instead, make passive aggressive comments to them and act like everything is fine. To me, that's dishonest, and very annoying. I would rather them tell me if they were upset, so I could know what bothers them, and know not to do it next time. I think that kind of dishonesty makes it very hard to get to know people, which makes it very hard for outsiders to make friends in MN.

[Minntoaz]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Never did, but the whole premise of this thread was that they're not fake. Anyway, I think Minnesota and East coast are two opposite ends of a spectrum, I prefer a happy medium, not too in your face and rude, but also willing to say what's on your mind, and not be fake.

Be the change you want to see. If that is how you handle conflicts, do it. I grew up in Minnesota and I am very confrontational in a respectful way. I'm sure if you let someone know what bothered you, they'd be floored and respect you for it. I absolutely do not fit in where I live (north Scottsdale) and am asked daily where I'm from? I reply Minnesota and they nod like they knew. I stick out because Im polite, nice, Minnesota girl and people appreciate that. No one likes little cookie cutters.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by Minneapolitan

UU, I do respect what you're saying about the friend thing, but all in all, I do disagree. If someone close to me asks what I think of their coat, I'm assuming they want to know the truth about my feelings...so, therefore, I oblige in most cases. Not saying that I would be rude about it, but I might say something like, I don't think it's your color, or maybe it doesn't fit right. My friends usually come to me when they want truth. Apparently it's hard to find a friend like me, they say. Lol

Admittedly, I do like to know lots about whoever I meet. I ask lots of questions, and answer candidly when asked questions. I'm not going to give out my life story, but I might share political beliefs. For me, I don't like to waste time figuring out if I'm gonna get along with certain people.

I was referring more to unsolicited comments. If someone asks for an opinion then it's a different story. Within reason, that is.

I tend to ask a lot of questions and give out a lot of information, too. And I do talk politics when it's appropriate (some people don't feel comfortable with that, and I respect that.). Many Minnesotans do. It's certainly possible to be Minnesota "nice" and do that -- in fact I think it's often BECAUSE so many Minnesotans DO feel comfortable having conversations with people that they don't know well then it leads to confusion along the lines described by Glenfield.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

There seems to be some confusion about what Minnesota nice really means. I'll give you an example of what I think of as Minnesota nice is. I was getting my hair cut at a small haircut place in a small town south of the Twin Cities. A guy came in asking if he could get a haircut, without having an appointment. The owner made some comment about how he came in without an appointment, but when he said sorry, she said, "oh that's fine, I don't mind." Then she was really nice to him, making jokes, and making small talk. As soon as he left she started talking about him to the other employee, "can you believe how rude he was? What a brat etc., etc." yet, she gave no indication that she was annoyed directly to him. She said something to him about it, but in a passive way, and then denied that she was really annoyed. That, to me, is the essence Minnesota nice. Never show or tell someone how you really feel even if you're annoyed at them. Instead, make passive aggressive comments to them and act like everything is fine. To me, that's dishonest, and very annoying. I would rather them tell me if they were upset, so I could know what bothers them, and know not to do it next time. I think that kind of dishonesty makes it very hard to get to know people, which makes it very hard for outsiders to make friends in MN.

No wonder the confusion! That's being two faced, not Minnesota Nice. Minnesota Nice is being friendly and courteous to strangers, yet reserved and private about personal things. It is definitely NOT the same as being two faced. Criticize her behavior, but don't label it as something it's not!

[Cleverfield]

I think Minnesota nice takes many forms, and can be either a positive or a negative, depending on the individual, but it is a very peculiar culture that is not good for everybody. If someone is generally a good, well balanced person, then they do fine in a Minnesota nice culture, but if they are not so good or well-balanced, I think it can be a source of problems. People develop pro-social behavior because of the rewards and rebukes they recieve by society. If society only rewards, and never rebukes, individuals will not learn that they've done something socially inappropriate, or if society rebukes but only in a passive aggressive way, the individual will not know what exactly it is they've done wrong. That kind of culture probably works really well in a sparsely populated area, where you only have to deal with people every so-often, but in modern-day Minnesota, which has a relatively large population, it is not so good. It breeds social and emotional isolation, and that leads to anti-social behavior like the two-faced situation that I described.

[uptown_urbanist]

For what it's worth, I've lived many years in Minnesota and never witnessed anything like described above. I have never lived in rural or small-town Minnesota, but I doubt that it's typical. And also worth noting: Minnesota didn't just suddenly become populated yesterday. The state has had multiple generations of people living in close contact with one another. Obviously there were and are some sparsely populated areas, but there have also LONG been towns and cities. And, for that matter, I think that historically, in any case, Minnesota has earned the title of being "nice"; this is a state where philanthropy and public service is highly valued. Our politicians included people like Hubert Humphrey. Part of the reason the state is now so much more diverse is because Minnesota-based nonprofits, many of them faith-based, have been so active in assisting refuges from around the world relocate to this country. (at one point Minnesota was second only to California in number of new refugee arrivals). Not exactly the behavior of a culture that is socially or emotionally isolated.

Being rude is not "Minnesota nice." Just because someone from Minnesota does something rude does make it "Minnesotan."

[Cleverfield]

Being rude is not "Minnesota nice." Just because someone from Minnesota does something rude does make it "Minnesotan."

No, but Minnesota Nice does mean being reserved and socially distant from strangers, and not rebuking people for things they do wrong, does it not? You see how that can be a problem for people who are not well-adjusted don't you? It makes it hard for them to learn that their actions are, in fact, socially reprehensible. Another problem with it is that it's not healthy to hold in your thoughts and emotions all the time. I understand that for people who have a network of friends this is not a problem, because they just "vent" to their friends, but for people who are new to Minnesota, the Minnesota Nice thing makes it difficult for people to find an outlet for their inner thoughts and feelings. Sharing inner thoughts and emotions is also how we get to know, and become more intimate with others, so I wonder how an outsider can get to know native Minnesotans if it's considered socially inappropriate for them to share their thoughts and emotions with strangers?

[Glenfield]

Too often, people don't seem to try to fit into the culture of an area they move into, but instead want the people there to adapt to them. You can take that as a comment on some people's difficulty with the reserved nature of many long term Minnesotans, or you can take it as a broader comment on American society.

When I moved to MN, I tried to learn as much as I could about the area, its history, its people and its customs. I didn't complain because people were different than where I came from. Instead, i savored the differences ans learned to adapt to the ways of the place I had moved to. It was a strategy that served me well, and I highly recommend it to others.