I need to comment on this MN Nice=fake thing (Duluth: live, suburbs)

[jzak1972]

Originally Posted by chilaili

No, it isn't everywhere. It's MUCH more prevalent in the Midwest. I lived there for 10 years before moving to Colorado where people are a lot more upfront about their likes and dislikes. And if you've never been to London, trust me, that would be a serious eye-opener to anyone from Minnesota where complete strangers will treat you like dirt and tell you how stupid you are before you've even drawn breath. So refreshing!

Agreed. I lived in the Twin Cities for many years but was not born there. Quite a few people who are born there and lived there all their lives there generally do not take kindly to people who are from outside of their circle. I don't think it's passive-aggressiveness as much as them just being reluctant to reach out to anyone who is slightly different from them. If you are an outsider to them, you are always an outsider. That's not being negative to Minnesotans, but being objective that is just the behavior that I have seen.

[ciJay]

Originally Posted by ozzie679

I think the lady was uptight in how she approached you. She should have ignored the situation.

But don't you think it' a little weird to leave a naked three year old on a park bench? IMHO you should not have done that.

I didn't leave her there, I was with her - on the bench, and she had a shirt on, just no pants. I don't really think it's weird, granted she's 3.

[MNNative]

I don't get the MN Nice thing. I never understood the "textbook" definition of it. Where/when did it originate?

To comment on what I've read;

I disagree with the suggestion that telling people off to their face is acceptable for a complete stranger to do...that goes against all forms of etiquette. I also don't see what the real problem is to me if my neighbor communicates nicely with me but never invites me over or whatever. Yes, I'd rather have a friend-neighbor...but that's what my actual friends are for, aren't they? Not everyone is going to like you, be friendly, want to throw dinner parties in your honor, etc...no matter where you live (well, Stepford maybe...). I happen to appreciate that if in need, someone (strangers even) will stop to offer their help. I honestly can say the quality of the people here is one reason that if my hubby and I have talked about moving, we dismiss the thought. The benefits of MN living far outweigh some of the "act like they like you, talk behind your back" ways people have. Who cares what they say behind your back anyway? Don't you negative people have any real friends of your own??

As far as the naked 3-year old thing...I have a 6 year old daughter and a son who will be 2 years old on Saturday. I've heard/read stories of people being offended by a small child in a diaper and nothing else (at the child's own home) which surprise me. Then again I have heard of married couples who don't go to the bathroom in front of each other and that is shocking to me too. lol In our home we run around however we want...lol. Maybe we're a strange family though! If we're expecting guests we're all proper and our son is at minimum wearing a diaper and a shirt. Depending on if it's someone who is close to us and we know they won't be offended by a child who has no pants on. Not everyone has that, er, um, openness with their family though.
I've had personal experience with a 3-year old child running around with no pants on whatsoever (yet a shirt on). We currently have a neighbor family who allow their son to run around without pants on, even when we're there and though it's sorta weird/surprising the first time we went over to play, I have never said anything. Would I have my kids play with no pants on, no - out of respect for others. If it was a 13-year old kid instead, yeah then maybe I would have mentioned something. Does that make me MN niceish?

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by MNNative

I disagree with the suggestion that telling people off to their face is acceptable for a complete stranger to do...that goes against all forms of etiquette.

Not in NYC, apparently.

They should move down to Atlanta. That way they can get stabbed or robbed by the natives instead of having to engage in unwanted small talk.

[What!]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Not in NYC, apparently.

They should move down to Atlanta. That way they can get stabbed or robbed by the natives instead of having to engage in unwanted small talk.

Good posts but I have no idea what this one is about.

[crazyme4878]

What I don't understand is all the focus on "Minnesota Nice." Its just a made up term coined by the the state's advertising group (I think). Anyhow, who cares??? Everytime someone doesn't like the social culture of Minnesota, they rail against the term "MN Nice," like Minnesontans gathered and voted to call each other nice and everyone else bad. You can't blame them for jumping of the advertising bandwagon on this one--who doesn't want to be labeled nice? Well, it does seem that NYers don't, but I'm not sure on that....

People also slam the so-called rampant use of passive-agressiveness, as if outward social agressiveness is a great deal better. NEWS FLASH: neither is good, nor productive. Yet, they both exist. Is it difficult to switch from one to the other? I'm betting it is, yet we all need to learn to deal with both.

But please, don't assume people are talking behind your back. Really, people have better things to do. And although newcomers may be interesting to discuss (especially in small towns), it doesn't usually go too far and rarely into scandelous gossip.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by What!

Good posts but I have no idea what this one is about.

The initial poster in the original thread (or at least a very recent thread about how MN nice is phony) was a NYC transplant who had a really serious problem with people engaging in fairly innocent small talk about his grocery purchases, people smiling at him, etc.

I figured he might find Atlanta more to his liking. Sarcastically, of course. But things are a lot more "in your face" down here, just in a somewhat different way. It's a lot more like the NYC in the 70's before the crime cleanup, and since the OP appears to be homesick for NYC attitudes...

I may be mistaken for assuming that this was a continuation of that thread. Folks from elsewhere really need to chill out, though.

[Jeanie Hoholik]

I've lived all over the Midwest and also in Rochester, New York for a short stint. Yes, you're right. People are crappy everywhere. WAIT! I mean people are nice everywhere. Well, it's all a bunch of bunk. I've written several posts about this very issue. It's a shroud. It's a shroud.

Did I already say that? Yes I did.

People, in general, need to have more confidence in themselves. That's the real problem. Their Moms or Dads didn't give it to them. Their teachers or peers didn't give it to them.

I know mine didn't.

You pick yourself up by your proverbial bootstraps and give yourself your own confidence and if you make a mistake...like saying something like, "Hi, where are you from?" and you don't get a decent response from someone here in the chilly city, MINTesota, so be it.

Call me if you want some tough talk. No sympathy from me!

Originally Posted by What!

I keep running into the same comments about the Midwest and MN: "people are nice to your face but unfriendly behind your back."

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that everywhere? This is the same statement people say about the British and the Japanese. They say the British will support you up front but be catty behind your back. Japanese people may like you up front but they keep away from you because you're a gaijin, a foreigner. I've heard the same thing about the Swiss, Germans, and tons of other places. The MN detractors seem to think Minnesotans are overall like that and we have a monopoly on the "nice to your face, unfriendly behind your back behavior". We do not. You'll find people like this in Chicago, L.A., NYC, Paris, Rome, New Dehli, and all over the world in droves.

I think MN get the worst of the hate because we are not upfront people. Because we are generally reserved and quiet, it is easier to think we are more cliquish than people who are in your face. In reality people who are in your face can sometimes be in your face and rude because they are being cliquish and guarding themselves from newcomers. In your face is not more honest than being reserved. Some of the fakest people are the most loud-mouthed braggarts who think they need to spew their opinions whenever they please. People like that are just trying to hide their insecurities as much as a quiet, reserved person.

People need to remember that Minnesotans aren't faker than anyone else. It is just easier to perceive a quiet person as being fake as opposed to a loud person. Loud people are much better at hiding their fakeness than quiet people.

Lastly, it is human behavior to be nice in your face and unfriendly behind your back; it is not MN behavior. If people understood this more they would understand MN better.

Any remarks?

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by Jeanie Hoholik

I've lived all over the Midwest and also in Rochester, New York for a short stint. Yes, you're right. People are crappy everywhere. WAIT! I mean people are nice everywhere. Well, it's all a bunch of bunk. I've written several posts about this very issue. It's a shroud. It's a shroud.

Did I already say that? Yes I did.

People, in general, need to have more confidence in themselves. That's the real problem. Their Moms or Dads didn't give it to them. Their teachers or peers didn't give it to them.

I know mine didn't.

You pick yourself up by your proverbial bootstraps and give yourself your own confidence and if you make a mistake...like saying something like, "Hi, where are you from?" and you don't get a decent response from someone here in the chilly city, MINTesota, so be it.

Call me if you want some tough talk. No sympathy from me!

I have to say there is a certian irony regarding posts that say Minnesota Nice == Passive Agressive. Pseudo anonymous posts on the Internet to blow off steam. Pot v Kettle stuff if you ask me.

The things we hate about others, are often the things we hate about ourselves eh?

[Teegs]

Originally Posted by aluminumpork

Rigghhttt, that's exactly what I'm looking for in a place to live!

It's what I look for. I hate fake people. If someone doesn't like me or something about me, I want them to tell me. If I don't like someone, I tell them. That way I don't have to pretend.