Help! Where should I live? (Minneapolis, St. Paul: how much, houses, established neighborhood)

[atomicglow]

I have just accepted a job offer in downtown Minneapolis. My wife and I are excited about the move. We are coming from the east coast. We are both in our 30's -- no children yet (hopefully soon) and have a very decent combined income.

We visited the Twin Cities area for an in-depth "drive around" this past weekend to see where we may want to live.

We are excited to move to MSP because we thought that we would be able to really trade up in terms of housing coming from the DC area. We saw some stuff that surprised us and I was looking for folks to weigh in and give me their opinion on our observations:

1. The best value seems to be the outer ring suburbs (Maple Grove, Eden Prarie, Woodbury, etc) however they all look like they were literally built yeterday and have no character, trees, or "downtown main street"...Where the heck does the kids soccer team go for an ice cream after the game?

We liked Eden Prarie the best as it has been around a while but were shocked when we asked a local if there was a downtown area where we could park the car and walk to shops and restaraunts. They pointed us to the Mall and the surrounding strip malls....

Wayzayata had a very nice downtown on the lake.....do other suburbs like Plymouth and Minnetonka have that? We couldn't find it....

2. We fell in love with the "inner suburbs" - Kenwood, St Louis Park , parts of Edina (close to the Chain Lakes) They had exactly what we were looking for -- towering trees, some hilly winding streets, age, character, walkable to shops -- a real nice suburban feel to them. BUT -- every house seems to cost over a million dollars and there is no inventory....

3. All the other "middle suburbs" - Hopkins, Golden Valley, etc - seem to be a "sea of ranch houses" with sporadic McMansion renovations. Again -- no "downtown"....


So -- I guess my question is -- Which suburbs should we be looking at?

[golfgal]

Stillwater would be the first place to look with it's abundance of 100+ year old homes and trees to match. They have a nice downtown area along the river and one of the BEST ice cream places in the twin cities. The commute to downtown is a haul right now but they are re-doing Hwy 36 and once that is done getting to Minneapolis will be pretty easy.

Northfield is similar to Stillwater but not a commute I would want.

Rosemount has some older areas of town with established trees, a downtown area, small but there, and still has somewhat of a small-town feel yet it has a population over 20,000.

Apple Valley has more established neighborhoods with some great tree lined streets but no downtown area to speak of--strip malls, etc.

Highland Park in St. Paul has what you are looking for but there you will have to budget for private schools for the kids.

The Twin Cities is not all that inexpensive but you can still probably get more house for your money here then in DC.

[chilaili]

Did anyone send you to 50th & France Ave in Edina? That's kind of a small downtown with lots of little, individual shops and nice neighbourhood BUT it is also expensive. Depends on how much you can spend. Highland has definitely more of a "village" atmosphere with its heart pretty much at Cleveland Ave & Ford Parkway and Ford & Snelling. There's also the Uptown neighbourhood in Minneapolis (VERY eclectic but lots of traffic) and Grand Avenue in St Paul which has shops running almost all the way along it.

Stillwater is about 20-30 minutes drive from the Cities but a really nice town. Housing can be pricey, depending on the area. Bayport isn't bad either, altho much smaller. White Bear Lake has kind of a centre to it.

This site will probably give you more information http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/neighborhoods/index.asp.

[atomicglow]

Yes -- we definitely went to the infamous "50th and France" and that is what we are looking for -- of course the houses in that area are either really expensive or need complete overhauls.....

Any other "neighborhood" tips closer in would be greatly appreciated!

[Lindenin]

I could have written your original post about 5 years ago. We were moving to the Twin Cities from Chicago, and had grown used to the quaint old neighborhoods there. When we were looking at houses, our realtor just didnt' get it. We asked for a "real" downtown, and she would take us to places that had just built a row of big box stores. We kept saying "no... there has to be something better. We want charm."

We took matters into our own hands and found an abundance of great, old neighborhoods, several of which you've mentioned. I'll list the ones that made our short list, in our particular order of preference:

1. Excelsior. Neat, 150 year old village on the shores of Lake Minnetonka. This is where we ultimately decided to live. We walk to everything, have restaurants and ice cream shops down the street, 2 coffee shops to meet friends at, and our boat docked on the lake, all within a 4 block walk from our home. It is perfect for us. If there are downsides, it is the distance from downtown Minneapolis and the smallish size of homes and lots (although several on the market right now would be perfect for a family). Excelsior gets a reputation for being "way out there", but it is only 20 minutes from downtown Mpls when the roads are clear.
2. Wayzata. Another lakeshore hamlet, but busier than Excelsior. Also, the housing stock close to its downtown wasn't quite what we wanted, but there are lots of great neighborhoods within a 2-3 minute drive of downtown Wayzata. Wayzata is on the north shore of Lake Minnetonka, Excelsior on the south side. Both communities are bucolic and have great charm.
3. 50th and France. If home prices hadn't been so crazy, this would have been higher on our list. What a great neighborhood, but we felt that by paying that much for a home, we wanted something special. In Excelsior, having access to Lake Minnetonka gave it the edge. But a great area. St. Louis Park is a way to be close to 50th/France and still not pay through the nose for the house.
4. Highland Park. We needed to be on the west side of the river for our careers and desired schools, but we really like Highland Park. Home prices are more reasonable than 50th/France.
5. Stillwater. We love Stillwater, and would have moved there if we needed to be on the east metro, but it is a hike from downtown Minneapolis. Great place, though.

That was our short list. You won't go wrong with any of those areas. I ommitted SW MInneapolis and Kenwood because we didn't want Mpls schools, but that was strictly personal preference.

Resist the subdivision!!

[atomicglow]

Awesome information -- Thanks!

[yellowsnow]

Love your post. I could have written it when I was first looking for homes here. I too dislike the acres and acres of clonehomes and areas with no personality or style.

Don't buy anything with a long driveway without thinking about shoveling it!

[SlyFrog]

I could write it now. I'm really starting to get sick of the housing search.

Your choices are, pay $800k for a 1955 2200 sq ft. fixer upper home in Wayzata/Edina, pay $1.5MM for a 1992 3500 sq ft. decent home in Wayzata/Edina, or buy a fungible 3800 sq ft. box out in EdenValleyBurnswood for $600k with a 40 minute commute to work downtown unless you drive in at 6 in the morning. At least that's what it feels like to me.

[yellowsnow]

Ok guys, I shopped and found my home with character. Where are you? I need to sell mine and no one is even looking! Too bad I am north of MSP! Just keep looking. There are cool homes out there. I agree is is hard to get a realtor to understand you don't want the clonehomes and you do want a sense of community.

Don't give up.

[Lindenin]

In my quaint / somewhat trendy / walkable / with character neighborhood, there are several houses on the market that I think are going to make great homes for someone. I think it is definately a buyers market.

In Excelsior, I'd say $500K - $650K gets you an older home that has been largely remodeled with mainly new amenities. $300K gets you a smaller fixer upper, so let's say with another $200K of rehabs, you have a pretty nice place. $1.5M + gets you on the water.

In Edina, those numbers jump up substantially. I think the going rate for a place with the work already done is about $850K +, with $500K being the absolute entry level, and not a nice house at that. I just can't justify Edina's prices. We looked at Edina in 2003, and for $575K you could have gotten a liveable, partially remodeled place near 50th / France. Nowadays, $575K is the entry level and the first thing you do is call an architect to draw up the remodel plans.

Around Lake Minnetonka, you can find many smaller pockets of neat old homes tucked away in old growth trees, all with nice neighborhoods. The problem is you don't get the walkable downtown, although you don't have to drive far. Tonka Bay, Greenwood, and Deephaven are all examples of this.

Don't forget golden valley... no quaint main street, but nice, established neighborhoods close to all the stuff.