Is Minnesota a good place for us? Thinking of relocating here... (Minneapolis: fit in, sales)

[brandy77]

Lakeside neighborhood in Duluth is cheap, safe and on the north shore. The cold is over-hyped. It's not that bad, especially if you live close to the lake in the winter. The winter is moderated by the big lake. In the summer who cares. I would rather have 70 by the lake than 90 inland. Lakeside is also in the rain shadow of weather coming from the west. Severe weather is very rare.

[DLHROCKS]

Tornado's are not an issue in Minnesota. The one that just happened is the first I've heard of in a while. Minnesota is a great state, and surveys show that people will report a higher quality of life. Overall, things aern't too expensive, and the people are pretty nice.
There are 3 big metros you could look at:
1) Minneapolis/St.Paul (Twin Cities) . . . population 3.5 million- This is a great place with lots to do. Depending on who you ask, some say that it is one of the best metros (clean, nice people, low crime) while I've heard some say it is one of the worst metros (with high crime . . . murderapolis), although the former seems more widespread. I really like that it is one of the few big metros where you can feel like you are in a small city (at times). There are lots of parks, and urban sprawl helps make some parts (even close to downtown Minneapolis look small).
2) Duluth/Superior (Twin Ports) . . . population 275,000- This is a great city (Duluth) next to a great lake. It is not your ordinary city, it is hilly and really spread out. Downtown Duluth is so cool. The old buildings are a relief from what you would get in the Twin Cities - everything looks the same in Minneapolis, suburb after suburb after suburb. Duluth is not status quo with tons of different and unique structures. A lot of people complain about the lack of things to do in Duluth, but its when you leave that you realize that it has a lot. Canal Park is pretty sweet. This is a great city in the summer because the temperatures are pretty manageable.
However, there are a few issues.
1) There is some crime on the central hillside, and drugs etc.
2) This city is not a vibrant city. People are leaving, and the job market isn't too great.
3) Taxes are terrible, one of the worst in the state (in a state that is high taxed).
4) The income average is lower in the area then the state average, and that can create some problems. I think its hard for this city to stay afloat because there is so much aid going out. Most of the rich in this area are old money.
5) Weather is terrible. In Duluth, the lake can make things cooler, which can be good in the summer, when 80 degrees becomes a nicer 70 degrees. But the lake can also give you the infamous fog. This city gets so much fog and rain that it just sucks.
6) City is in debt and has been since before the economy collapsed if I remember right.

4) Rochester . . . population 100,000- This is a great city. Overall, it lacks a lot of fun stuff that Duluth or Minneapolis has. I don't think the entertainment has matched its growth. But, it is everything that Duluth isn't. Duluth has stuff to do, Rochester doesn't. Duluth is shrinking, Rochester is growing really quick (when I left 15 years ago, the population was just over 40,000). Duluth is old, Rochester is new. Also, Rochester is just filled with people with professional jobs which in my opinion helps the city. That's why the schools are are nice, the roads are nice... the whole city is nice.

You could also make an arguement for St. Cloud. But many consider it a suburb of Minneapolis.

The Good Things About Minnesota:
1) Pretty good quality of life.
2) Things aern't too expensive
3) Education is good.
4) Lots of state services.

The bad:
1) Weather. I actually prefer -20 to 120 (Phoenix). I know I am one of the few who would say this. However, either way, -20 sucks, and in Duluth, you really only get June-August of nice weather. The rest is well, coats and warm clothes.
2) Taxes

I can't think of any more.

[ZaraZoteBuccaneer]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I 100% do not agree with Zara that you should avoid the cities themselves.

I love finding people not like me....

Maybe you prefer a suburb, and that's fine, but there's absolutely no reason to avoid the cities for fear of crime, bad schools, quality housing, lack of "normal" people, or anything else.

Crime undoubtedly hits the cities more the the suburbs, DUH sorry... just a fact. I can leave my doors unlocked at night if I wanted to. Can't say that for many areas further in and certainly wouldn't recommend it to a newcomer. The public school system here is in desperate need of help and the cities cannot provide the quality of education as some of the more affluent burbs or even private schools. Too many educators are ignoring NO Child Left Behind out of anti-Bush spite - missing the point of educating, only trying to score well and they shift students to better themselves. they never give up on asking for more money and... you think they'd have something over the rest of the nation in the way of student acheivement to show for it. For the amount of money this state pays...... uuuuggghh I'm just sticking up for what I know to be the truth as an educator. And for quality of housing, if you enjoy spending oodles of money on your heating bill or all the upkeep of an older home, be my guest but I'm not going to recommend that either. As a person coming from one high cost of living area in the country (CA), to another high cost area (MN), you'll be sure to want to keep as much of your hard earned salary as possible.

Minneapolis and St. Paul are very nice cities, very livable, have wonderful neighborhoods,

yes, maybe, I don't wan tto knock an entire area but in general what you're comparing to is not the same.

lots of good schools,

uh, no....

plenty of "normal" people,

where? in uptown? Oh I bet they're just perfectly normal - bunch of greenie latte sipping philosophers with their new modern feeling urban appeal.... sorry, it's not normal to some

and certainly lots of people who care very deeply about education, their community, etc. Depending on what you mean by "affordable," for example (given that you're used to SF prices!) you could even live in a wonderfully safe area of Minneapolis (the area around Lake of the Isles: East Isles, Kenwood, and a few other neighborhoods - not cheap by any stretch of the imagination,

oh gosh, you think??? Let's get real. There's so much more to pick from in this market than that.

but some affordable (depending on definition) duplexes for rent,

duplexes? You want a common wall for the price of a new home?

despite it being one of the area's most posh neighborhoods - sort of the Pacific Heights of Minneapolis) with a neighborhood newspaper called the Hill and Lake Press. (sounds like a perfect match...)

There are plenty of other nice, cheaper, but also safe, quiet, convenient, and overall nice neighborhoods within the city that may be of interest. (in the suburbs, too, of course,

of course

but again, you don't "have" to live in the suburbs to find them.) You'll find lakes and and parks all over the metro area (and state), and overall MN is known for having good public schools.

Again, no.... please be carefull on this.

There's not the pressure to move somewhere just for the school district,

Yes there totally is....

as you can find good schools pretty much everywhere.

Again, no.... Oh my gosh .... are you from the Dept of MN Ed? You sound like it!!

I'm not sure if you live in SF itself, but the Minneapolis Public Schools also offer some great magnet options

Now you recommend magnets???? You've got to be from the Dept of Ed. UUUUHHHHH

and school choices, but don't have the horrendously complex lottery system like you find in the city of SF.

Seriously do not listen to this. I can't believe this. It's so not the truth. Well, if you move here, at least you'll have some time to see for yourself.

[uptown_urbanist]

^I won't go into responding to the rest of this, other than to say that we're obviously on opposite sides of the fence on almost all of this (and suggest to the OP that this shows some of the diversity that can be found in MN, so you'll have options wherever your own personal tastes fall; I happen to like safe, urban, walkable, tree-filled, family-friendly neighborhoods with diverse, high-quality schools, all of which you can indeed find within city limits), but have got to point out that MN is not a high cost state; not one of the cheapest either, of course, but after the Bay Area the Twin Cities are going to feel like a MAJOR bargain. MN offers a great quality of living at a good price. You can live very well as a renter, but (unlike SF) you can also afford to buy a nice place in a nice neighborhood on a normal middle-class salary. It's a great place to live with a family.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by ZaraZoteBuccaneer

Seriously do not listen to this. I can't believe this. It's so not the truth. Well, if you move here, at least you'll have some time to see for yourself.

I am not sure what ZaraZote is talking about, and I'm not sure what s/he refers to as "normal" people, but I would guess her working definition has something to do with being middle to upper-middle class, white, and conservative- that is "normal" in the areas she is recommending.

As San Francisco tends to be a pretty liberal place, if this is your own persuasion and you enjoy that about San Francisco, you will not be happy in a Southwest suburb of Minneapolis. I 100% agree with everything Uptown Urbanist stated about the core cities- on average, you will find great schools, great people, and great neighborhoods in Minneapolis and St. Paul proper, but maybe they're not so "normal" for MN in the sense that you will also find a fair amount of diversity (although not always the case) and they tend to be pretty liberal (however, liberal might be more "normal" for MN than conservative, so maybe scratch that). The majority of people here have never experienced an actual tornado coming anywhere near their house, so that's not much of a concern, and many apts have basement laundry/ storage areas that could be utilized if needed. Good luck-

[acrylic]

I have to vouch as well. In all my 20 years I never witnessed a tornado. But then again, I live in Duluth, so...it's pretty much impossible here.

[Mucya]

Thank you all so much!
It's a lot of information to deal with
We'll see where my husband will be able to find a job and go from that...
Looks like we'll be looking for a place in suburbs anyway...
I really appreciate all the comments!

[ZaraZoteBuccaneer]

That's great Mucya - stay in touch with CD because there is a wealth of info on here.

By the way, Uptown & Camden, I just want to apologize if I have come across wrong with any comments about normal people. In reflection on my post, you've shown a bit more restraint than I have. I didn't mean to offend someone for being different but also think that one statement has been taken out of context slightly. I don't define "normal" by things like race gender, social class religion or even politics and I'm also not saying I believe anyone here thinks that I do. I only wish there were more people in MN who fall into a category I have called "normal" and I also think we all to some degree have preferences/opinions on what is average or normal for ourselves. I won't try to hijack this thread to explain what I meant by normal but wanted to at least let you know that I still respect you and your opionions, even if I am severely against some of the things we've discussed. For instance, I wouldn't have been a part of starting an entirely new school if I didn't think there was a problem already. I also used to spend quite a bit of time in Uptown specifically in the 90's because of the diversity from the burbs and have seen it changing from what it once was. I'm getting off track a bit....

Anyway, Mucya, you will find the suburbs to be a nice place to live. I guess I will throw a vote in after all... If your husbands job lands near Chaska or Chanhassen, you will be very pleased with the community they strive so hard to create and you wouldn't be that far away from enjoying a great many things to do, even going into the downtown areas.

And I'll throw one last pitch out for our greater Minnesota friends who have been contributing - many of those other cities have terrific things to offer too along with far superior outdoor attractions. I highly reccomend that you not overlook our northern cities because you may fall in love with something you never expected to find.

[ET_MTB]

I moved from Westchester County, NY to Maple Grove, MN about a year and a half ago. I move to chase a great job opportunity. I am 40ish, married and have 3 and 6 year old girls. We will have another baby girl in the next couple of weeks. As the only male in the family I am completely out numbered and my power decreases as the girls get older. For a family I have found MN to be great. The schools, local community center, swimming club, beautiful parks, bike paths, and city events have all made me feel like I could be happy and spend the rest of my life here.
Yes the winter is extended and a little more extreme but don't let that deter you. There are plenty of beautiful 20 and 30 degree days to be taken advantage of. There is sledding, cross county skiing, and building snowmen. There are the days when you don't want to leave the house but those are opportunities to spend a cozy day with the family watching movies. My wife is the first one to complain about the cold when we are sledding. The kids could stay out for as long as we let them.
We are in Minneapolis every weekend to bring the kids to a free tennis program. It takes about 25 minutes to get there. Then we go out to the museum or find some interesting place to have lunch. We usually end up at Fat Lorenzo's and walk off our meal at the near by park.
When there is a tornado warning we go into the garage of the apartment building where we live. We have done this 3 or 4 times since we moved here. Not a big deal. The kids get excites and you get to interact with you neighbors.
Moving to MN has been a great experience.

[NumberPlate]

Leave all those statistics and web sites you look. This is my practical experience. As far as tornado and storm concerned, I never felt too scared or too much worried about. You will get used to it. I have seen many people still drive and do their stuffs listening to radio that there is a tornado warning. May be looking at all those statistics and websites is scary. But practically I havent seen people getting too nervous about tornado. As far as tech job is concerned it may not be like silicon valley of CA but MN was talked as Silicon Valley of North. Good Luck.