The Next Minnesotan Metropolitan Area!!!!?? (Rochester: dorms, buying, school)
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Nothing new is really being built and once the construction stops I'll bet many of the construction workers will have to find a new job.
It may not be major, permanent job building construction, but I've seen more non-road private business construction here than in many years previous. You've got the Mariott Residence Inn, Texas Roadhouse, Culvers and Buffalo Wildwings (just started construction) up at the mall all built this year. Downtown we've got the brand new, gorgeous Zinema 2 and its accompanying (also gorgeous) Zeitgeist Arts cafe. Then there's the very nice Blackwater bar and Takk for Maten. Not the mention the renovation of the old Coin & Stamp/Cony Island building on First Ave and Superior.
These are obviously not game changing, population changing developments. But these are private investments that weren't happening during a relatively lofty time in our economy but are happening now. I have no complaints with that.
In tune with the thread, I think that Rochester will definitely be the next larger metro in Minnesota. It seems to have most everything going for it.
And you should remember that most of the road construction is federally funded, without that I doubt you'd be seeing so many roads fixed. Once the bacon's gone I don't see this construction continuing. It's only providing some short-term jobs and needed maintenance on roads. Nothing new is really being built and once the construction stops I'll bet many of the construction workers will have to find a new job. Same with this red plan by the school district, once its complete there's also going to be a lot of teachers/support staff looking for work elsewhere. As for a sustaining population, the US Census estimates a decline in this decade, not a huge one, but its certainly not a growth; and the area isn't growing either (Superior is definitely shrinking), except Hermantown.
Often true, everyone living in St. Louis County is considered to be living in the Duluth/Superior metro. E.g. Hibbing is considered part of the Duluth metro, that's just stupid.
Pretty much like a band-aid huh?
Duluth is a city with land and infrastructure suited for 140,000 people, but with only 85,000 in tax base. So a city designated to maintain roads and property that once brought in tax monies from 140,000, is trying to do the same with 85,000. No wonder why they are broke and coming up short.
Bouncing off the federal dollars... I heard that the USA government has only allocated 4 billion of the 700 billion dollar bailout for road construction.
Why does't the USA just dump a Trillion dollars into infrastructure? Similar to FDR's New Deal. Let's put hundreds of thousands of high skilled. high paid workers to work. Lets get our roads and bridges and parks and others fixed up-it's an investment. The Federal goverment should treat it's country like a home- we all fix our homes in hopes of brining up the value... Most people say to do home improvements when times are bad. Putting thousands of people to work and putting fat paychecks into their wallets will cause a trickle-down effect. If a family that is currently earning $600 every week in MN DEED paychecks, could be earning $1500 a week, allowing families to pay down debt and maybe go PURCHASE THINGS. In a consumer driven economy, we thrive off of people spending their money. If more people had more disposible income, then more people would be buying things..
That's where a lot of problems are going to come from. My generation is the generation that is just wrapping up school. I, along with handsful of peers, graduated college with an average debt of $25000. Most of us make $300-$500 student loan payments monthly. Most of us are working low-paying retail jobs that have nothing to do with our college education. These low paying jobs are still causing us to work 40 hrs a week, but the low wages all go to student loans. This is going to happen for the next 10 years, where an entire population or generation is going to be spending all their disposible income on loans.
Right, nobody forced us to go to school, or even to take out loans...But as 17 yr old kids, your're preached your whole life to do well in school, and to move on so that "things will be easier later on in life"... Most of us expected to be placed into jobs in our field within 12 months of graduating. Most of us have not. This is going to be the biggest problem of America. The lack of consumer spending. Lack of consumer spending cuts retail jobs. Cut retail jobs cuts manufacturing of those goods. Cut mfctng means cut transportation jobs. Its a trickle-up effect.
The economy will take off as soon as people can take an extra $100 a week and go to Target, Best Buy, (the piggy bank for a new car), the Mall, etc. But, it's almost impossible as almost no jobs are out there, or no jobs pay well enough to allow $100 of weekly disposible income
Duluth is a city with land and infrastructure suited for 140,000 people, but with only 85,000 in tax base. So a city designated to maintain roads and property that once brought in tax monies from 140,000, is trying to do the same with 85,000. No wonder why they are broke and coming up short.
Duluth never had 140,000 people. It's top population was 106,000 people. Duluth's infastructure is expensive due to egography and solid bedrock, and it has a lot of tax forfieted land because the economy tanked in the late 70's with US Steel closing and ever other major manufacturer closing down along with the closure of the air base. By the early 80's Duluth had over 18% unemployment rate. You can't just turn that around overnight.
Duluth has to change outsider perception of being anti-growth and anti-business and pro-union if it wants to grow. I've never lived anywhere that is soo pro union and with soo many NIMBY people. I think that attitude is slowly changing.
I think if you take the last 10 years, there has been an overwhelming amount of development compared to the 80's and 90's. You have the Tech Village, All of East Superior Street redeveloped-almost four entire blocks, and a new Sheraton Hotel, New DECC, Decc Expansion, Aquarium, UMD has a new building every year for the past 10 years and doubled it's student size, the Airbase has expanded, the Airport is getting a new 60 million dollar terminal, and the Port has increased tonnage every year for the past 15 years.
The hospitals have all grown and added campus buildings, and new private developments are entering ghetto areas like Lincoln Park . The Duluth Heritage and Sports Center, hotel, and brewery complex. UnitedHealth's expansion to West Duluth has 150 employees and the new name of "Ovation" (whatever that is). Cirrus Design was the high flying manufacturer employing about 1000 people in Duluth but the sour economy has devasted them and hopefully they will not go bankrupt.
There have been a lot of new housing developments in Duluth too, but mostly in Hermantown. Overall the population is stable and expanding outisde the city in places like Hermantown, Lakewood, Rice Lake, and farther north around the lakes.
I think Rochester already is considered an MSA and will be over 100,000 people at the next census.
Duluth never had 140,000 people. It's top population was 106,000 people. Duluth's infastructure is expensive due to egography and solid bedrock, and it has a lot of tax forfieted land because the economy tanked in the late 70's with US Steel closing and ever other major manufacturer closing down along with the closure of the air base. By the early 80's Duluth had over 18% unemployment rate. You can't just turn that around overnight.
Duluth has to change outsider perception of being anti-growth and anti-business and pro-union if it wants to grow. I've never lived anywhere that is soo pro union and with soo many NIMBY people. I think that attitude is slowly changing.
I think if you take the last 10 years, there has been an overwhelming amount of development compared to the 80's and 90's. You have the Tech Village, All of East Superior Street redeveloped-almost four entire blocks, and a new Sheraton Hotel, New DECC, Decc Expansion, Aquarium, UMD has a new building every year for the past 10 years and doubled it's student size, the Airbase has expanded, the Airport is getting a new 60 million dollar terminal, and the Port has increased tonnage every year for the past 15 years.
The hospitals have all grown and added campus buildings, and new private developments are entering ghetto areas like Lincoln Park . The Duluth Heritage and Sports Center, hotel, and brewery complex. UnitedHealth's expansion to West Duluth has 150 employees and the new name of "Ovation" (whatever that is). Cirrus Design was the high flying manufacturer employing about 1000 people in Duluth but the sour economy has devasted them and hopefully they will not go bankrupt.
There have been a lot of new housing developments in Duluth too, but mostly in Hermantown. Overall the population is stable and expanding outisde the city in places like Hermantown, Lakewood, Rice Lake, and farther north around the lakes.
I think Rochester already is considered an MSA and will be over 100,000 people at the next census.
A city with infrastructure suited for 140,000. When planning and building roads, you never build for what you HAVE, you build what you PLAN to have. During the boom years, and before the giant bust of the late 1970s and through the 1990s, the city built infrastructure with hopes of it servicing over 140,000 residents, employees, and college students
A city with infrastructure suited for 140,000. When planning and building roads, you never build for what you HAVE, you build what you PLAN to have. During the boom years, and before the giant bust of the late 1970s and through the 1990s, the city built infrastructure with hopes of it servicing over 140,000 residents, employees, and college students
I see your point, and I misread your previous post.
Rochester without a doubt. I grew up in Rochester and now live in downtown Chicago. In my experience, most people have heard of Rochester (Mayo Clinic mostly). If they didn't know about IBM there, they say "oh wow...that's pretty amazing." They know about Rochester almost always...most don't even know where in the state it is, but they know it exists and a few things that are there (i.e. Mayo Clinic).
If you mention St. Cloud to most people, they will draw a blank because there's nothing "world famous" there. Some people know Duluth, but in my experience the amount of people who recognize Duluth is waning.
Rochester could easily have 150,000 people in 15-20 years (it's at about 102,000 now). Just the amount of growth since 2000 to now is pretty amazing. I believe the population has grown about 17,000 since 2000, many new things went up downtown, lots of things changed, better restaurants, more visitors, etc. Honestly, if I was an investor and had to put money on any city in Minnesota, it would be without a doubt Rochester. Sorry Duluth, you're a cool city but I haven't seen anything moving very well in the last 10-15 years from you.
Last edited by marothisu; 12-22-2009 at 01:48 AM..
Rochester without a doubt. I grew up in Rochester and now live in downtown Chicago. In my experience, most people have heard of Rochester (Mayo Clinic mostly). If they didn't know about IBM there, they say "oh wow...that's pretty amazing." They know about Rochester almost always...most don't even know where in the state it is, but they know it exists and a few things that are there (i.e. Mayo Clinic).
If you mention St. Cloud to most people, they will draw a blank because there's nothing "world famous" there. Some people know Duluth, but in my experience the amount of people who recognize Duluth is waning.
Rochester could easily have 150,000 people in 15-20 years (it's at about 102,000 now). Just the amount of growth since 2000 to now is pretty amazing. I believe the population has grown about 17,000 since 2000, many new things went up downtown, lots of things changed, better restaurants, more visitors, etc. Honestly, if I was an investor and had to put money on any city in Minnesota, it would be without a doubt Rochester. Sorry Duluth, you're a cool city but I haven't seen anything moving very well in the last 10-15 years from you.
I agree with rochester, but you dont need something world famous to have a metro area. Most metro areas dont have a world famous place, but what all metro areas have is an actual four year university which rochester doesnt have.
I agree with rochester, but you dont need something world famous to have a metro area. Most metro areas dont have a world famous place, but what all metro areas have is an actual four year university which rochester doesnt have.
Yeah I thought of that after I wrote it. In most major metro areas though, there is something "famous" there whether it's a port, a sports team, an employer, whatever.
Also, Rochester technically has four year universities, just very very small. I believe technically speaking you could do it through Cardinal Stritch or Augsburg, but not entirely sure.
Anyway, The University of Minnesota-Rochester is also the newest U of Minnesota satellite school (even though you could take classes at RCTC since the mid to late 60s for U of Minn). The old downtown "mall" was transformed a few years ago I think so 4th and 5th floors or something are classrooms and offices. The entire place was redone and made more luxurious and University of Minnesota themed.
I remember reading back in 2006 or 2007 how there are plans to build university housing right downtown with a lot of other things that is already underway. I hear it's supposed to be completed in 2-3 years completely? Right now though, most of the programs offered are MS and MBA programs (with a few PhD/doctorate programs). I think there are a few four year programs available for undergrad there now such as Bachelors of Health Sciences (go figure... http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_...te_degree.html). I wouldn't doubt in 10 years if the university had enrollment of between 1000 and 1500 if all the construction goes to plan. According to RochesterMN.com, the enrollment is already pushing 500 and according to stories on the Post Bulletin business blog, they are buying land (including an area of downtown which they will demolish the existing old buildings and build new classroom/student center building(s) on).
Last edited by marothisu; 12-22-2009 at 03:38 PM..
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