Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Mississippi
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-24-2012, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,793,687 times
Reputation: 775

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonofDixie View Post
Do you honestly believe education is why people are suspicious of outsiders and come off as insular? While it may occasionally be true, I don't think it's the main reason. Example: Usually the elite/wealthy class is one of the hardest ones to break into, as an outsider. Those folks are generally very well-educated, but wouldn't give the time of day to a a wealthy, liberal yankee family that moved into their town. Especially if that person came down and attempted to do everything differently. I just think most Southerners are wary of outsiders, regardless of education level. Many of us are very traditional and do not want outsiders to come in and change our area. Just look at what happened to Florida and the metro areas of North Carolina and Georgia. Mississippians aren't the only ones not fond of outsiders. Sometimes, it's unfortunate because those who want to assimilate often get lumped with the rest of the transplant crowd. Anyway, I think you're putting a little too much emphasis on education being the main factor.
The elites/wealthy classes in Mississippi are a product of the same type of education system, for the most part. Moreover, in many of Jackson's wealthy enclaves (and in the suburbs of Madison or Flowood or Clinton) the wealthy tend to send their children to private academies, which are entirely insular in their approach to education. What's worse are Delta-area private academies, where children are secured in a bubble and provided with a sub-par educational experience outside of the purview of many of the state dept. of ed's regulations. For example, teachers at some of these private academies are not licensed. A few who have commented on Mississippi's Delta-area private academies have concluded that they are nothing more than "baby-sitting ventures." And the ones who actually do provide instruction offer only far-right ideological indoctrination, much of which is complete with the view that the South is "traditional" (whatever that means, I take it to mean "Hard-headed" and "behind-the-times") and more religious than the rest of the country. Well, going to church or a Christian-type school doesn't necessarily make one religious. Instead they are just participants in a religious-sponsored entity.

Similarly, the public schools in Mississippi, I believe, foster insularity because most of these are controlled by local districts whose members instill their own ideological viewpoints within the curricula. Moreover, many of the public schools' licensed teachers trained at a school like Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Southern Miss, Belhaven, Mississippi College, or Blue Mountain College, where they learned some ideological viewpoints based on their spurious educational theories. At the state schools, I am rather certain that education majors are instructed to avoid controversial issues in the classroom because that's what the state dept. of ed. mandates. Controversy is to be avoided in public school instruction, which I believe fosters insularity and an unwillingness among many Mississippians to fully understand phenomenon like you mentioned, i.e. the metropolitan-ization of places like Atlanta, Charlotte, and south and south-central Florida. Furthermore, the state dept. of ed. approves of a curriculum in which Mississippi culture is heralded and considered pure and sacrosanct when compared with other cultural traditions.

Lastly, for the elites and wealthy classes who opt for public schools for their children, the state dept. of ed. has come up with a rating system designed to give credence to public school systems in the state's wealthy enclaves like Madison, Tupelo, various communities on the Coast, along with the Jackson-Memphis suburban area schools. Schools are rated on a scale of 1 to 5 and among the criteria designed to determined a level 5 school is parental involvement in the school. In other words, parents who have the money, time, and wherewithal to hover over their kids' extracurricular activities ranging from baseball and youth soccer, football and the like to drama, and band, etc.--well these parents are rewarded by the state with a high rating, usually level 5. In places where parents do not have the time, wherewithal, and disposable income to hover over their child's every activity at school are punished with a level 1 rating and are threatened with a state takeover of their county's or municipality's school system.

The education system is where insularity can be broken down. Sadly, in Mississippi, it's where it's reinforced.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-24-2012, 07:15 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,169 posts, read 22,607,449 times
Reputation: 17328
What I don't like about Mississippi is that there's a higher chance of tornadoes in December there than in most (if not all) other states. When I think of Christmas, I want snow, or at least chilly temperatures at night. I don't want tornadoes and disgusting 60-degree temperatures at night.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-24-2012, 08:34 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,359 posts, read 17,015,775 times
Reputation: 36972
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
What I don't like about Mississippi is that there's a higher chance of tornadoes in December there than in most (if not all) other states. When I think of Christmas, I want snow, or at least chilly temperatures at night. I don't want tornadoes and disgusting 60-degree temperatures at night.
You post this from Athens, GA? Did you really think the weather could be that different from Athens?

Average Temp for Athens in Dec.....35 - 56.Average Weather for Athens, GA - Temperature and Precipitation

Average Temp for Tupelo, MS in Dec.....34 - 54.Average Weather for Tupelo, MS - Temperature and Precipitation

There were no tornado related fatalities anywhere in the US during December of 2011. There were some in 2010, in MO and AR. None in Mississippi.
Mississippi does rank very high in annual likelihood of tornadoes, but December is the least likely time of year for one to develop here or anywhere else.

The tornadohistoryproject.com is a great place to find statistics on such things.
http://www.tornadohistoryproject.com/search/basic

We can agree on one thing for sure: Tornadoes are frightening, even if fascinating.

Last edited by Listener2307; 06-24-2012 at 09:13 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,205,670 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiogenesofJackson View Post
Lastly, for the elites and wealthy classes who opt for public schools for their children, the state dept. of ed. has come up with a rating system designed to give credence to public school systems in the state's wealthy enclaves like Madison, Tupelo, various communities on the Coast, along with the Jackson-Memphis suburban area schools. Schools are rated on a scale of 1 to 5 and among the criteria designed to determined a level 5 school is parental involvement in the school. In other words, parents who have the money, time, and wherewithal to hover over their kids' extracurricular activities ranging from baseball and youth soccer, football and the like to drama, and band, etc.--well these parents are rewarded by the state with a high rating, usually level 5. In places where parents do not have the time, wherewithal, and disposable income to hover over their child's every activity at school are punished with a level 1 rating and are threatened with a state takeover of their county's or municipality's school system.
I mostly agree with your post, except the bit above. I think you have it backwards. The state didn't come up with a rating system that gives preference to schools with a high level of parent involvement. They didn't have to, because it's been proven again and again that schools do better if the parents are involved. If the majority of parents in a district don't care about their children's education (common in poor areas), or believe that the government is responsible for taking care of everything (common pretty much everywhere), then that school district won't do nearly as well as one with involved parents.

The state would never "punish" a school district by taking it over. The state doesn't WANT to take any school system over. The state wants to stay in Jackson and let the schools do their thing on their own, but if a school sucks so bad they're in danger of losing federal money the state has no choice.

My son goes to a Magnet school in Chattanooga. A Magnet school is a public school run with public money that offers a specialized type of education. Chattanooga has Magnet schools with an emphasis on Math and Science, Performing Arts, Fine Arts, and others. My son's school uses the Paideia teaching philosophy. One of the requirements for attendance at a public school with special provisions is that parents are required to donate at least 18 hours of volunteer time to offset the extra cost. Parents do things like monitor the drop-off / pick-up lines, minor landscaping and maintenance work, teacher-aide type stuff, decorating classrooms and hallways for special events, working concession stands at sports events, and chaperoning field trips. I think there was a total of over 7000 hours of volunteer time donated last year; that's about 4 full-time positions over the course of the 9-month school year.That's 4 salaries that didn't have to be paid where the money could be spend on things like updated books for the library, new sports equipment, extra printer paper and pencils, etc.

I most definitely do not hover over my child's every activity at school, but I am involved. For one, I make sure he does his homework every night instead of just letting him play video games and watch TV. I managed to take off one day from work last year to volunteer as a chaperone on one field trip. Last summer I came in on a Saturday with a group of other parents to help his teacher demo some old lockers and set up her room for the next year. Some parents get all their volunteer time by simply dropping their kid off, parking, and then helping to direct traffic in the car line for 15minutes before driving on to work.

Personally, I don't think there is really anything that special about the Paideia teaching method. I believe the reason my son's school was named the top magnet school in the country last year is that all the parents are involved and worked hard to MAKE it the top school in country.

I know of nothing like this in Mississippi.

There are many reasons why I cannot move back to Mississippi before I retire, but the school system is the main one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,793,687 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
I mostly agree with your post, except the bit above. I think you have it backwards. The state didn't come up with a rating system that gives preference to schools with a high level of parent involvement. They didn't have to, because it's been proven again and again that schools do better if the parents are involved. If the majority of parents in a district don't care about their children's education (common in poor areas), or believe that the government is responsible for taking care of everything (common pretty much everywhere), then that school district won't do nearly as well as one with involved parents.

The state would never "punish" a school district by taking it over. The state doesn't WANT to take any school system over. The state wants to stay in Jackson and let the schools do their thing on their own, but if a school sucks so bad they're in danger of losing federal money the state has no choice.

My son goes to a Magnet school in Chattanooga. A Magnet school is a public school run with public money that offers a specialized type of education. Chattanooga has Magnet schools with an emphasis on Math and Science, Performing Arts, Fine Arts, and others. My son's school uses the Paideia teaching philosophy. One of the requirements for attendance at a public school with special provisions is that parents are required to donate at least 18 hours of volunteer time to offset the extra cost. Parents do things like monitor the drop-off / pick-up lines, minor landscaping and maintenance work, teacher-aide type stuff, decorating classrooms and hallways for special events, working concession stands at sports events, and chaperoning field trips. I think there was a total of over 7000 hours of volunteer time donated last year; that's about 4 full-time positions over the course of the 9-month school year.That's 4 salaries that didn't have to be paid where the money could be spend on things like updated books for the library, new sports equipment, extra printer paper and pencils, etc.

I most definitely do not hover over my child's every activity at school, but I am involved. For one, I make sure he does his homework every night instead of just letting him play video games and watch TV. I managed to take off one day from work last year to volunteer as a chaperone on one field trip. Last summer I came in on a Saturday with a group of other parents to help his teacher demo some old lockers and set up her room for the next year. Some parents get all their volunteer time by simply dropping their kid off, parking, and then helping to direct traffic in the car line for 15minutes before driving on to work.

Personally, I don't think there is really anything that special about the Paideia teaching method. I believe the reason my son's school was named the top magnet school in the country last year is that all the parents are involved and worked hard to MAKE it the top school in country.

I know of nothing like this in Mississippi.

There are many reasons why I cannot move back to Mississippi before I retire, but the school system is the main one.
I understand your point about federal money and Miss. schools that receive it and this being the main reason that the state dept of ed may take over a school district. That's a good point to note here that much of the state's enforcement mechanisms are designed to make sure local districts receive the proper amount of funding from the feds. If I had more time and if I knew if you were interested, I'd write more about the battle in Mississippi over federal education funds--it's part of my book manuscript and it's a long drawn out saga that I find very interesting, but I'm sure it might put others to sleep. It directly relates to what I believe are Mississippians' insularity, especially in regard to educational standards.

However, my point about the rating system is that it doesn't rate the curricular offerings as much as a level 5 rating is contingent upon parental involvement. And I do agree with you that parental involvement makes a much better school system. Yet what I think the state dept of ed should take into account is that in the impoverished areas of Mississippi, there are structural and institutional barriers to parental involvement. If both parents work two jobs to make ends meet, if parents work at times when they need to be at the school either to meet with teachers during "open house" or to support their children during extracurricular activities (which can get pricey considering the cost of gas, equipment, etc), then these barriers prevent parent involvement.

Parents at level 5 schools such as Madison, Tupelo, etc, for the most part, don't experience these barriers to parental involvement in their children's education. So the level 5 system is in a way a validation to the parents who are fortunate enough to live in a district where most of the people are affluent or work professional jobs that enable them to take time off to go to the "open house" or little Johnny's soccer game.

Leveling standards are judging more than mere curricular standards--by the way, these standards are largely imposed upon by the state through curricular guidelines for each subject area. So in that type of system, what makes the curriculum better than a level 5 school as compared to a level 1 school? Well there is no difference, but the state determines that there is one and does so based on some rather arbitrary standards in my opinion. In way, the level system validates some schools while stigmatizing others.

Another component criteria for leveling a school as the highest--a 5--depends on a dropout rate for a given district. Again, there are structural barriers in place that inhibit schools in the more impoverished counties and districts because impoverished parents usually require that their children work to support the family once a child reaches the legal dropout age, which I believe in Miss. is 16 years old. These parents require their children's labor power because of their impoverished condition--not because they eschew education.

These are just some factors the state needs to consider when determining which schools reach a level 1 or level 5 status. I would think that elected school board members' and their respective educations should factor in as well. I know of a level 4 school in Chickasaw County where several members on the local board of education don't even have a high school diploma. Naturally, when these board members entertain important policy decisions, they are at a disadvantage and I believe the entire school system suffers. In one case that I know of personally, a school board rejected appropriations for new school equipment and for monies that would pay the salaries of additional MFL and science teachers. Instead, they bought a new scoreboard for the basketball gymnasium and increased the supplemental pay for all of its coaches--from athletic director to assistant cross country coach.

As for magnet schools, I'm very familiar with these since there are quite a few in the greater NOLa area. Mississippi, to my knowledge, has none. Instead they have the private school or "independent" schools, which is really a moniker for an "strict ideological" school in which the students are indoctrinated into various religious and political ideologies. While there are indeed some fine academies in Mississippi, some are merely centers for indoctrination whose students exist in a bubble and learn to distrust outsiders who are, they are taught, hell bent on destroying the state's traditionalism and heritage. Parents who think along the lines of a strict ideology usually send their children to these type of academies rather than opting for the public school or home school.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Mississippi Delta!
468 posts, read 781,091 times
Reputation: 268
Here's an example of a magnet school:

Hayes Cooper Center

God bless,

CKB
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,112 posts, read 2,571,426 times
Reputation: 1579
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
I know of nothing like this in Mississippi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiogenesofJackson View Post
As for magnet schools, I'm very familiar with these since there are quite a few in the greater NOLa area. Mississippi, to my knowledge, has none.

Mississippi/MS Magnet Schools - Public School Review
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,205,670 times
Reputation: 5149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhadorn View Post
Thank you for that link; now I know of a few Magnet schools in MS.

DoJ: Interesting points in your argument. It looks like we have a classic conservative/liberal conflict of interpretation of the same facts. My perspective is one of personal accountability, yours is one where people make the decisions that are forced upon them by society.

I come from a conservative (white) family in Mississippi. My parents were NOT very involved with my school. They came to my football games, but that's it. They did support me in other ways, however. My parents were far from rich (quite poor during the recession of the 80's), but they always supported me. I had to work part-time jobs in school, but I knew I had to get good grades to get scholarships to get a college education to get out. With part-time jobs (up to 3), scholarships, grants (THANK YOU MR. AND MRS. SUMNER!!), and student loans I managed to complete a 4-year degree in 5 years. One thing I did NOT have to do is send my parents money to help support them, my siblings, or any other relative.

In my opinion an education is the most valuable thing you can ever obtain. Period. EVERYONE in this country has been offered, for free, this valuable thing, and they can even get free food as part of it. The problem is that most kids, and even many parents, don't realize how valuable a thing this is so many of them squander it. Their parents don't emphasize the importance of school, don't make sure they do homework, don't participate in education in any way. The kids don't try because it's too hard. Many party instead of studying. They drink alcohol or do drugs, even AT school. They have pre-marital sex, get pregnant, and have to drop out to raise the baby. In short, they throw away a valuable asset.

So the perspective in my earlier post is that if you don't participate in your children's education you deserve your school rating of "1".

Your perspective is that people only drop out because they are poor; because they have to support their families.

Ack... I've got to go and can't finish this. I was actually going to add a few other things that supported YOUR side of the argument, but I don't have time. I also don't know how to save a "draft", so I'm posting as is and I'll return later, maybe tomorrow.

Anyway, my point was going to be that the real truth is somewhere in the middle. That many people in the "1" districts haven't done anything to deserve a better rating, and also many other people in those same districts have no other choice but the ones forced on them by society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Metairie, La.
1,156 posts, read 1,793,687 times
Reputation: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhadorn View Post
Oh yes, Bailey! I should have known it was a magnet. I never really thought of Ellisville and MSMS as magnet schools. Anyway, I stand corrected.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2012, 10:12 PM
 
1,185 posts, read 2,208,750 times
Reputation: 1009
Quote:
The South in general is lacking. MS, AL, LA and GA

I certainly wouldnt say Louisiana, Georgia or even Alabama is "lacking". Atlanta is pretty fun if you actually go to the city and Louisiana has New Orleans which is far from boring. Alabama is a stretch but I've heard mobile Alabama is a lot like New Orleans

P.S: Im not from the south so i don't have a biased view
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Mississippi
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top