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Old 10-16-2007, 07:23 PM
 
99 posts, read 184,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moedog View Post
American Life, I think you have you answer. Obviously, it is next to impossible for these people to even discuss the issue. It may be news to those in the Delta, but people of good will can actually discuss racial issues--in fact respectful discussions of racial differences, similarities, and misconceptions are key to improving relations among people of different cultures. I do believe it would be difficult to find similarities between the situation in Jena LA and the Delta----the Delta has virtually no integrated schools. Whites go to private schools while blacks go to woefully inadequate public schools which are usually 98-100 black. Very sad.
I have no intention of engaging in a useless debate of inflamatory race rhetoric. However, I will identify and call-out a falsehood when one is posted.

There is no such thing as a segregated public school in the Mississippi Delta. Although there are some schools that are predominantly black, All public schools are integrated. The ratios run the spectrum. But, to say there are no integrated schools is a blatant falsehood. That the ratio may not reach your particular level of 'perceived equality' is irrelevant to the facts and to the law.

Last Friday we attended the Canton, MS High School vs Pearl, MS High School football game. These are public schools. Canton is predominantly minority and Pearl is probably 50-50. Ratios are determined by district lines and residence, not by Apartheid. The teams reflected that ratio. Notwithstanding your preferred outcome, there was (gasp) civility and tons of fun at this homecoming game for Pearl. Pearl's homecoming queen was a black young lady who (gasp) attends church in Canton.

There is also no such thing as a 'woefully inadequate public school' in the Mississippi Delta. Federal and state laws prohibit that and roughly 72% of the state annual budget is spent on public school education and physical plants. This is a 'poor' state, speaking comparatively; however, the expenditure for public schools is second to none, relatively speaking.

Although there are private educational institutions throughout the South and certainly in the Delta region, all of them publish non-discrimination pledges in their mandatory newspaper advertisements. It is a violation of law to refuse admission to any student based on race or ethnicity.

My wife has taught in the public schools of the Mississippi Delta counties and part-delta counties for over 30 years. She has had classrooms ranging from 90-10 black to those that are roughly 50-50 black-white.

Your figures are inaccurate and your conclusion is patently wrong. You obviously have a goal of painting the Mississippi Delta with a brush from the 1950s; however you fall flat when confronted. I will watch for your subsequent posts and will call you out again if need be.

Otherwise, peace.

Don

Last edited by Don D.; 10-16-2007 at 08:25 PM..
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Old 10-16-2007, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,418,663 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don D. View Post
I have no intention of engaging in a useless debate of inflamatory race rhetoric. However, I will identify and call-out a falsehood when one is posted.

Otherwise, peace.

Don
As I wrote prior to you, I just want to know how he "knows" all this. As I no longer live in the Great State of Mississippi, but am a native of the same, I commend your writing. You deserve a bump.

DP

PS: Well, I tried to bump you up, but they're telling me I have to spread the goodwill. >sigh<

Last edited by Delta Planter; 10-16-2007 at 07:37 PM.. Reason: just a post-script
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Old 10-17-2007, 04:32 PM
 
251 posts, read 1,063,012 times
Reputation: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don D. View Post
I have no intention of engaging in a useless debate of inflamatory race rhetoric. However, I will identify and call-out a falsehood when one is posted.

There is no such thing as a segregated public school in the Mississippi Delta. Although there are some schools that are predominantly black, All public schools are integrated. The ratios run the spectrum. But, to say there are no integrated schools is a blatant falsehood. That the ratio may not reach your particular level of 'perceived equality' is irrelevant to the facts and to the law.

Last Friday we attended the Canton, MS High School vs Pearl, MS High School football game. These are public schools. Canton is predominantly minority and Pearl is probably 50-50. Ratios are determined by district lines and residence, not by Apartheid. The teams reflected that ratio. Notwithstanding your preferred outcome, there was (gasp) civility and tons of fun at this homecoming game for Pearl. Pearl's homecoming queen was a black young lady who (gasp) attends church in Canton.

There is also no such thing as a 'woefully inadequate public school' in the Mississippi Delta. Federal and state laws prohibit that and roughly 72% of the state annual budget is spent on public school education and physical plants. This is a 'poor' state, speaking comparatively; however, the expenditure for public schools is second to none, relatively speaking.

Although there are private educational institutions throughout the South and certainly in the Delta region, all of them publish non-discrimination pledges in their mandatory newspaper advertisements. It is a violation of law to refuse admission to any student based on race or ethnicity.

My wife has taught in the public schools of the Mississippi Delta counties and part-delta counties for over 30 years. She has had classrooms ranging from 90-10 black to those that are roughly 50-50 black-white.

Your figures are inaccurate and your conclusion is patently wrong. You obviously have a goal of painting the Mississippi Delta with a brush from the 1950s; however you fall flat when confronted. I will watch for your subsequent posts and will call you out again if need be.

Otherwise, peace.

Don
Canton and Pearl are suburbs of Jackson and as such are not considered part of the Mississippi Delta. Pearl, the town with the 50/50 school could not be considered a part of the Delta by any stretch of the imagination. There is an elementary school in Greenwood which has about a 50/50 mix and a high school and elementary school ( a 12 grade school--all in one building) south of Greenville which is majority white, with about 25% black, otherwise I challenge you to cite any public school in the Delta (excluding suburbs of Jackson) with any significant white enrollment, or any private school (save one or two church mission schools)with any significant black enrollment. I would also invite you to compare the per student spending in any Delta school district with national per student spending, or even per student spending within the state of MS. More importantly, I would like to hear of ANY Delta public school which even approaches national testing standards, graduation rates, etc. Neither federal or state regulations can force schools in the Delta, or anywhere else, to meet a particular standard. They do classify schools according to how well they are meeting goals and standards and penalize schools which do not meet those standards. Many, if not most, of the public schools in the Delta fall into that category.
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Old 10-17-2007, 04:44 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 17,036,940 times
Reputation: 7659
Exclamation Yoo-Hoo - Thread Warning!

We're getting way off topic - from race relations in the delta to the amount of money spent per capita on schoolkids...that's kind of a big stretch.

There's a difference between citing figures on racial make up and discussing race relations as well.

Frankly, I think this thread has about been beat to death. It never started with a focus, and it surely isn't anywhere close to being on track right now. Let's either help it back on the path or shut it down...whaddya say?
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Old 10-17-2007, 05:11 PM
 
99 posts, read 184,612 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by moedog View Post
Canton and Pearl are suburbs of Jackson and as such are not considered part of the Mississippi Delta. Pearl, the town with the 50/50 school could not be considered a part of the Delta by any stretch of the imagination. There is an elementary school in Greenwood which has about a 50/50 mix and a high school and elementary school ( a 12 grade school--all in one building) south of Greenville which is majority white, with about 25% black, otherwise I challenge you to cite any public school in the Delta (excluding suburbs of Jackson) with any significant white enrollment, or any private school (save one or two church mission schools)with any significant black enrollment. I would also invite you to compare the per student spending in any Delta school district with national per student spending, or even per student spending within the state of MS. More importantly, I would like to hear of ANY Delta public school which even approaches national testing standards, graduation rates, etc. Neither federal or state regulations can force schools in the Delta, or anywhere else, to meet a particular standard. They do classify schools according to how well they are meeting goals and standards and penalize schools which do not meet those standards. Many, if not most, of the public schools in the Delta fall into that category.
I'm not into researching test scores or per capita expenditures in Mississippi compared to national averages. I have not mentioned that and don't think it was part of the discussion. You are free to do your own research and draw your own conclusions, however.

Your geography seems to be as awkward as your claims of apartheid. You may want to consider the public schools in Warren County, namely Vicksburg High School and Warren Central, both 5-A schools, both integrated, both annual football contenders and schools of long standing excellence, both solidly in the Mississippi Delta.

Adams County is also considered a 'part-delta' county and you may want to take a look at Natchez High School. Yazoo City High School, solidly in the central delta, although predominantly minority, is integrated as well. And let's not forget Grenada, Hernando, Senatobia, Batesville and South Panola, the latter referred to as The University of South Panola because of it's phenomenal football powerhouse and national unbeated streak, currently ongoing.

My daughter is a school counselor in Hernando, just South of Memphis. You may want to reconsider that city as well as Horn Lake and Olive Branch schools up that way, all somewhere between 50-50 and 60-40. Madison Central, where my kids graduated is one of the highest ranking public 5-A schools in the Southeast. Ridgeland High is a new, nearby high school. Both are about 60-40 white. And don't overlook the fact that the Mississippi River Delta also includes many counties in Arkansas. Perhaps a poster from that state can enlighten the board about schools there.

All of the towns and schools I have mentioned are less than a hundred miles from the center of the Mississippi River in the midst of one of the poorest states in the nation, yet a state maintaining good race relations, strong work ethic and, for the most part, solid family values, black and white.

I won't go on as no point is being served. I won't attempt to judge the point you're attempting to make, although I'm not sure what it is. All I'll do is call a spade a spade Moderator cut: knock it off.

Will you now change the subject to school lunches, bus routes and gym floors?

Last edited by Sam I Am; 10-17-2007 at 06:21 PM.. Reason: no, no, no...
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Old 10-17-2007, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,418,663 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by moedog View Post
Canton and Pearl are suburbs of Jackson and as such are not considered part of the Mississippi Delta. Pearl, the town with the 50/50 school could not be considered a part of the Delta by any stretch of the imagination. There is an elementary school in Greenwood which has about a 50/50 mix and a high school and elementary school ( a 12 grade school--all in one building) south of Greenville which is majority white, with about 25% black, otherwise I challenge you to cite any public school in the Delta (excluding suburbs of Jackson) with any significant white enrollment, or any private school (save one or two church mission schools)with any significant black enrollment. I would also invite you to compare the per student spending in any Delta school district with national per student spending, or even per student spending within the state of MS. More importantly, I would like to hear of ANY Delta public school which even approaches national testing standards, graduation rates, etc. Neither federal or state regulations can force schools in the Delta, or anywhere else, to meet a particular standard. They do classify schools according to how well they are meeting goals and standards and penalize schools which do not meet those standards. Many, if not most, of the public schools in the Delta fall into that category.
Neither Canton nor Pearl are in the Mississippi Delta. If you would look at a Mississippi topo map, you would see the Mississippi Delta stretches from the north end of US Highway 61 to the foothills above Vicksburg. Greenwood abuts the hills, so yes, it is in the Mississippi Delta. So is Belzoni, Rolling Fork, Cleveland, Leland, Shaw, Shelby, Mound Bayou, Clarksdale, and Tunica to name a few. Why you are citing stats from Canton and/or Pearl is beyond me, and you are not addressing the "race relations in the Mississippi Delta" as the OP asked, way back when.

FWIW, here is a kinda-sorta map: http://www.olemiss.edu/mwp/images/maps/MLL-delta.jpg
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:01 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 17,036,940 times
Reputation: 7659
Just a little off topic, but not really - I am always, always impressed by the Mississippi forum. For the most part, it runs itself. Everyone is polite and gives good info.

American Life started this thread way back when...has made a total of 2 posts, the last on SEPTEMBER 27th, almost 3 weeks ago...and yet this yada-yada stuff continues. Could we just drop it? The OP isn't interested and we've gotten into spending on education...good lord. This thread has 2 warnings, lets get it back or let it go.
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,418,663 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
Just a little off topic, but not really - I am always, always impressed by the Mississippi forum. For the most part, it runs itself. Everyone is polite and gives good info.

American Life started this thread way back when...has made a total of 2 posts, the last on SEPTEMBER 27th, almost 3 weeks ago...and yet this yada-yada stuff continues. Could we just drop it? The OP isn't interested and we've gotten into spending on education...good lord. This thread has 2 warnings, lets get it back or let it go.
I concur with your synopsis; however, I don't think I would vanquish the list just yet. Granted, the OP has not been conversive at all, which is kind of curious, as what was his point of posting the query in the first place? I don't know. But as you are the moderator, I suppose it lies upon you as to the final decision, eh?
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:32 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 17,036,940 times
Reputation: 7659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Planter View Post
I concur with your synopsis; however, I don't think I would vanquish the list just yet. Granted, the OP has not been conversive at all, which is kind of curious, as what was his point of posting the query in the first place? I don't know. But as you are the moderator, I suppose it lies upon you as to the final decision, eh?

No, you've misunderstood me....I've said let's get it back on track or let it go. People who search the forums for answers will look at the title and think race relations is indeed what this thread is about, but it's segued off somewhere and we're talking about school spending .... even with the six degrees of Kevin Bacon working for me, I can't make it even remotely match up to the original topic.
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Old 10-18-2007, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Alvarado, TX
2,914 posts, read 4,418,663 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam I Am View Post
No, you've misunderstood me....I've said let's get it back on track or let it go. People who search the forums for answers will look at the title and think race relations is indeed what this thread is about, but it's segued off somewhere and we're talking about school spending .... even with the six degrees of Kevin Bacon working for me, I can't make it even remotely match up to the original topic.
Yep, I guess I did misunderstand. Well, whatever, I was attempting to "get back on track" with my last post, as I did not utter a word about the schools, just the location. Your call, Sir!
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