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Old 02-23-2013, 04:53 PM
 
797 posts, read 1,269,251 times
Reputation: 992

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandik View Post
evidently the problems the jackson abortion center are experiencing are not particular to ms. The same owner is unable to re-open her clinic in birmingham, al. Why? Well, it seems to be because of complete and utter failure in correct the health code violations which closed it in the first place. You know - this is the clinic which sent 3 people to emergency rooms (to be served by whatever dr. Is unlucky enough to be on duty) in one day. The same clinic where a woman died.

Would you really and honestly want to have this quality of medical care, regardless of your stance on whether abortion is right or wrong? But never fear - the jackson clinic has cured anything wrong by painting their building hot pink and getting good press from those eager to push the abortion agenda. Not to worry about safety of patients - the main goal is political debate.
bingo !
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:54 PM
 
797 posts, read 1,269,251 times
Reputation: 992
shut er down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Jackson County, MS
40 posts, read 66,958 times
Reputation: 92
Alluvial, unfortunately I couldn't access the link you provided without some sort of registration. I appreciate the cut-n-paste.

I certainly agree that improved sex education and access to contraception will result in lower abortion rates. I can see the causal relationship there. Where your argument goes awry is trying to find causation between access to abortion and lower abortion rates. It is my opinion that you are finding causation where there is only correlation. So, I guess we agree 66.6%, which is way better than I usually do

Whether I agree or not, the right to abortion is currently the law of the land. I just hope for the sake of consistency, that you are as outraged at other states that choose to ignore other federal laws, and even our own federal government which refuses to enforce federal law.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:42 PM
 
93 posts, read 204,341 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by p-squared View Post
So, I guess we agree 66.6%, which is way better than I usually do
Hey, I'll take what I can get. Please do note that it wasn't me who drew the conclusion, but the authors of that study.

As a bit of armchair psychology, I'll wager there is a link between having legal & safe abortion, and lower abortion rates, in that it would be somewhat comforting to a woman to know that she had that option. It might cause her to be more relaxed about being pregnant, and more likely to choose to carry to term. That's based on my personal views as a mother and the personal history of my friends who are mothers.

Quote:
I just hope for the sake of consistency, that you are as outraged at other states that choose to ignore other federal laws, and even our own federal government which refuses to enforce federal law.
Outrage is not the right word, exasperated is more like it. I am also exasperated about other states which choose to ignore other federal laws. I'm more of a practical person and I don't get too worked up about most things (although, some things I do).

I'm not sure which laws you're thinking of that the Feds are ignoring so I can't answer that one. Two things I'm currently opposed to at the Federal level are the NDAA and the drone killings stuff. I also did not like Cash for Clunkers, I thought that was asinine.
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:09 AM
 
26 posts, read 52,692 times
Reputation: 77
Although this thread is supposed to be about 'why mississippi is trying to close down this abortion clinic' and although the very details of how this particular clinic does business ought to provide a logical answer, the thread continues to be a debate about 'rightness' or 'wrongness' of abortion. I have yet to hear an answer to the question, 'Is this the quality of medical care YOU would like or that YOU consider adequate and safe?'

Aside from that it appears that, using the same logic which has led to sentencing people for their beliefs instead of their crimes (hate crime enhancements), the ideology of the proponent or opponent of abortion is more important than health concerns or medical realities about this clinic.

And still aside from that is the silly belief that everyone who is opposed to abortion has only religious reasons for their stance. As a Libertarian my firm belief is that people should have as near-equal rights as is possible. Currently the rights of a baby to survive are less than the convenience of a mother. If the mother is going to die, as determined by her dr., from carrying a child, then abortion should be an option. I'm very curious to see how many of the proponents would actually choose this particular clinic to have this operation. Anyone willing to answer that question? Or would they prefer to have such a procedure in a safe atmosphere where the drs. were able to do hospital admissions in case of the unexpected - just like the drs who do tummy-lipos or mole removals in their offices.

Why society has determined that the course of nature - not the course of religion or belief or God - but the course of nature which makes it impossible for a little human to get out of the womb without nurture by it's mother - is 'wrong' and must be corrected in order for the mother to pursue her own plans immediately, I don't know. Perhaps some day we can hear an answer from the lovers of death. Ideally we could suck the inconvenient little nub out and implant in someone who either wants to raise him or her, or someone with enough respect for human life to be at least as willing to bring it into this beautiful world as they often are to defend a rare sea turtle or obscure insect.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
22,130 posts, read 13,704,314 times
Reputation: 32540
So abortion is legal. Supreme Court has said so.

Wouldn't that be the end of the argument?
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:09 PM
 
26 posts, read 52,692 times
Reputation: 77
It may be. However it appears the argument on this thread is whether a state has the right to establish minimum standards for licensed medical clinics. Our state has established that outpatient surgery (which is what abortion is classified as medically) must be done in a setting where there is a physician with admitting privileges to a local hospital. This clinic refuses to comply. Actually this should be the end of the argument, but they've garnered political support rather than paid more to hire better qualified drs.

Of course, they don't mind sending their wounded patients to area hospitals to fend for themselves and/or get other drs to clean up the mess made by their hacks. They are well aware they serve an at-risk population of primarily young, sometimes naive, and often ashamed women who may well arrive at a hospital reluctant to give real facts about how they got into the shape in which they find themselves. But the clinic doesn't have to worry - not their problem. Our legislature has finally insisted that they comply with the same rules a plastic surgeon, liposuction dr., even an oral surgeon must comply with.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:49 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
22,130 posts, read 13,704,314 times
Reputation: 32540
"Wounded patient to fend for themselves"?...."Mess" made by "Hacks"?

My, my. These are licensed medical doctors you are speaking of.

The obfuscation continues. Last April, Mississippi passed a new law requiring all doctors performing abortions to have admitting privileges at a local hospital. The two doctors that provide abortions at JWHO live out of state and don't have those admitting privileges, although the clinic already has a relationship with a local obstetrician who can admit women to the hospital in case of an emergency. When the law passed, the clinic knew it would not be able to comply. The local hospitals in this largely anti-abortion state refused to grant admitting privileges to abortion providers. A judge gave the clinic until mid-January to apply, but, as expected, no hospital would grant the privileges.

And yet the licensed abortion providers are called hacks, the color of the abortion clinic is criticized, and Sandi attempts to inoculate herself from criticism by claiming to be a libertarian. "As a Libertarian my firm belief is that people should have as near-equal rights as is possible. Currently the rights of a baby to survive are less than the convenience of a mother."
Sandi, in spite of The Supreme Court's ruling, views the 3 month old embryo as a child who has a right to survive. The court has said it is not, and has said it has no such right.
A Libertarian must take the position that the state (Federal Government or Mississippi) must take no position on abortion at all. But Sandi turns on herself, by claiming to be a Libertarian first, and then secondly by declaring that impossible standards, such as the survival of a less than three month old embryo, be met.

I'm not buying it. I don't think Sandi would agree to the presence of an abortion clinic no matter what requirements have been met.

Not that it truly matters. The abortion foes have won and Mississippi will lose its clinic, and probably never have another. Defeated by politicians, not rejected by the people of Mississippi.

Here's an interesting site I stumbled on, which shows the rate of abortion in Mississippi to be far lower than the national average. It will eventually drop to zero, I am sure.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/mississippi.html

Last edited by Listener2307; 02-24-2013 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:21 PM
 
93 posts, read 204,341 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandiK View Post
I have yet to hear an answer to the question, 'Is this the quality of medical care YOU would like or that YOU consider adequate and safe?'
Actually, I answered you. I don't know why you chose to ignore my post.

But yes, I would have no qualms going to the center for any of the health services they provide, including abortion.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:35 PM
 
93 posts, read 204,341 times
Reputation: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
"Here's an interesting site I stumbled on, which shows the rate of abortion in Mississippi to be far lower than the national average. It will eventually drop to zero, I am sure.
State Facts About Abortion: Mississippi
The rate of *legal* abortion, maybe. But you and I know that women will continue to seek abortion whether it is legal or not.

I found it amusing, Sandi, that you fussed at other people for bringing the question of right-or-wrong to this thread, and then spoke to it in your own post. lol!
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