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Old 08-21-2013, 10:50 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,574 posts, read 17,286,360 times
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I saw this statement, and it go me thinking:
Quote:
......but when the majority of their graduates head off to mediocre Ole Miss or Miss St, then it's hard to tell just how good those schools really are.......
Blasphemy! Or is it? I thought anyone caught saying such things out loud would be subject to arrest, or at least ridicule. It sounds like the sort of thing a desperate man about to be hanged would shout as the trap door dropped.

I mean, even the author of the above note - I will not betray him - would have to concede that a Veterinarian trained at Mississippi State would be a good as any. Probably.
And I don't know whether to cringe or cry when I hear the term 'student athlete' applied to a bassitball player or a fuhball player. Whatever they are, they are not students, and their presence in Oxford has nothing (usually) to do with education.

So I really don't have a dog in this hunt. The question is, "Does having a degree from Ole Miss put a graduate at a disadvantage when competing for a job against someone whose degree came from some other college? Really? Anyone know?
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:28 PM
 
Location: PNW, CPSouth, JacksonHole, Southampton
3,734 posts, read 5,772,817 times
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I took exception to that post, too. And honestly, as long as one's degree comes from a fully-accredited university, what matters most is that one has the degree.

State is actually a very good school. I think its grads could, where it's applied-science-based majors are concerned, go anywhere in the country. Ole Miss is the center of an insular world with its own ways of thinking and doing. I'd imagine staying within Mississippi (in order to stay plugged-into the Ole Miss Cronyism Network) is an assumed part of an Ole Miss student's life plan.

Then again, once you're a Physician, you can ply your trade basically anywhere. So, Mississippi docs aren't necessarily trapped in Mississippi. And it seems most docs practicing in Mississippi are Ole Miss grads.

And while an Ole Miss law degree probably is best used in-state, I know several Ole Miss grads whose power-brokering extends to DC and NYC. Some are lobbyists, and one is a partner at a major firm in Manhattan.

What matters is how much money one can make with one's degree, and how much wealth one can amass during one's work life. Then, there's quality of life to be considered. And then, one factors-in the Cost of Living, including prices of homes and land, in the locale where one settles.

Drive around the Jackson Metro, within a 30-minute radius of Downtown, and you can find one fabulous home after another. Maybe they're not Spelling Manor fabulous, or Long Island Gold Coast fabulous: but they're on a level with most luxury homes in luxurious places. And virtually all of those houses belong to people who went to "mediocre" Mississippi schools. Then there are a few houses like this one, http://southerncosmopolitan.com/wp-c...rd-300x286.jpg, belonging to this Ole Miss MBA: Jim Barksdale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, I suppose I've answered the next question: "Is an MBA from State or Ole Miss worth anything?"

Then, of course, there are the 'Worthless Degrees'. Oh. Those. If you have an Art degree from Harvard, then galleries in Manhattan are much more likely to give you a show, or at least gallery space. A degree from a prestige school convinces the buyer of the piece that you "aren't just some loser who couldn't do anything else..." And, I'm sure the same dynamic applies to those who majored in English, Comparative Literature, some sort of History, Urban Planning, and the infamous Political Science.

Maybe.

Now that recruiting and keeping minorities is a huge goal at all schools, the easy degree programs are filled with athletes and others. And we all know that even the Law schools at even the best colleges are pushing some people through, regardless of their competence (some are from famous Nazi families... some from famous Communist families... some are just the right color...). Employers look at the applicant, these days, more than they look at the name of the school. If the applicant is being hired to fill a color quota, then the name of the school may be reassuring. If the applicant is being hired to actually do the work, then the strength of the applicant and her skills are the crucial factors. (some of us simply have moved our operations offshore, where we don't have to hire based on racist quotas)

Is a degree from State or Ole Miss good enough to enable one to have a lovely life in Mississippi? Can you pay for a big Lexus SUV, the requisite private schools for the kids, the requisite trips to Bora Bora and Vail? A decked-out interior, a three-car garage, and dense landscaping? A quarter-million-Dollar wedding for your little princess Ashleigh Tyfanni? If it's a good enough degree (and you're competent and motivated), then ABSOLUTELY yes! Just grab a copy of any of the Jackson society glossies, and you'll see one graduate after another, of these "mediocre" schools, doing plenty well.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Johns Island
2,502 posts, read 4,436,759 times
Reputation: 3767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Blasphemy! Or is it? I thought anyone caught saying such things out loud would be subject to arrest, or at least ridicule. It sounds like the sort of thing a desperate man about to be hanged would shout as the trap door dropped.

I mean, even the author of the above note - I will not betray him - would have to concede that a Veterinarian trained at Mississippi State would be a good as any. Probably.
And I don't know whether to cringe or cry when I hear the term 'student athlete' applied to a bassitball player or a fuhball player. Whatever they are, they are not students, and their presence in Oxford has nothing (usually) to do with education.

So I really don't have a dog in this hunt. The question is, "Does having a degree from Ole Miss put a graduate at a disadvantage when competing for a job against someone whose degree came from some other college? Really? Anyone know?
Why didn't you follow up in the other thread where I posted the original? I'm not ashamed of what I wrote.

US News Rankings - Ole Miss 151, Miss St 160
Forbes - Ole Miss 278, MSU 279, Southern Miss 576(!)

Or lets look at something that crossed my desk a couple weeks ago - hospital rankings. Since most doctors in MS went to Ole Miss, let's see how Mississippi's hospitals rank. If you look at Sept 2013 Consumer Reports, you will see that not a single hospital in the entire state ranked higher than middling (if you know Consumer Reports, it's the white circle - good would be red circles or half-red). No hospitals in MS scored any amount of red. The entire state is either middling or worse. Alabama, Georgia, and Louisiana all had some red hospitals, so it's not a "southern" thing. It's a Mississippi thing.

Of course the K-12 schools across the state of MS are populated with Ole Miss grads, and we're routinely 48th or 49th. Nothing to brag about there either.

These are the results you get when you fill your institutions with Ole Miss/MSU grads.

Sure, can you go to Ole Miss, and then join your daddy's law firm, and do business with companies around the state, and live well in NE Jackson or Annandale? Absolutely. If you don't have those connections and you find yourself in competition with a Northwestern or Michigan grad, good luck to you. Of course that's unlikely to happen if you stay in MS, so being insular allows the local grads to compete among only themselves. So what we end up with in MS is a whole bunch of ill-exposed people - ill-exposed college professors training ill-exposed kids. No one ever gets exposed to the best and brightest because those best and brightest are in New England, or NYC, or Chicago, or DC. Our bar never gets raised.
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Old 08-22-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,244,282 times
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What do you call the person who graduated in last place in the worst medical school in the country?

Doctor.

I know a guy who went to MS State for pre-med then to Ole Miss for his MD (traitor!). He's a good-ol' country boy from way back, sharp as a tack, an excellent doctor, and his heart is almost as big as his belly. But he wanted to give something back to his home state (Or, maybe it was because he hated living in the big city and decided to move back to the country where he could eat supper in his daddy's restaurant). So after working out of state for a while he moved back to his home town to practice.

Now he and his wife (an RN, both in their 30's) work in an underfunded, understaffed, and overcrowded public clinic in a small town in Mississippi. Might get a full black circle in a CR analysis, but it's not because of the doctors. Most of his patients can't afford decent clothes, much less decent health care. His salary is good enough, but his country home will never grace the pages of an architectural glossy and he's perfectly happy driving his old pickup to work. He posts pictures to Facebook of deer hunting with his kids, as well as pictures of his patients. He's happy, and all based on a Mississippi education.

On a more personal note, I did quite well with my engineering degree from Mississippi State, as did my ex-wife, but then we did move out of state to maximize our opportunities. I believe GvG's assessment of the different degrees is spot-on.

Changing topics, regarding under-performing schools staffed by Mississippi graduates, I blame administrators, politicians, and voters more than the teachers. My high school provided me with a very good education considering it was a tiny 1A rural school. The principle cared and I had access to several excellent teachers (all with degrees from Mississippi schools). I had several hours of college credit before even getting my high school diploma.

But then my principle retired and the football coach took over, and the football coach's son got elected superintendent. My little school dropped down to about 230(ish) out of 250(ish) high schools in the state. Everyone who could afford it (mostly white people) pulled their kids out and sent them to not-much-better private schools. Since they were already paying for private school, the voters continually denied any extra public school funding. Eventually, they consolidated with the only other school in the county and shut the doors forever.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:20 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,574 posts, read 17,286,360 times
Reputation: 37321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
........On a more personal note, I did quite well with my engineering degree from Mississippi State, as did my ex-wife, but then we did move out of state to maximize our opportunities........
I think your experience is more what we find. Doesn't sound like you got tossed out of the interview because your degree is from Mississippi, but if someone from, say MIT, had been interviewed he may have been given the nod based upon his college.
So, for most of us, it doesn't really matter exactly where we got the degree. The Harvard MBA trumps just about every college. But an Oklahoma MBA means no more or less than an Ole Miss MBA.

Yesterday, we sent my grandson off to Ole Miss. He got a full scholarship on the condition that he teach in Mississippi for 5 years. He's not really keen on being a teacher, but he feels it is not something he could turn down. And I wouldn't look for him to ever leave Mississippi.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Johns Island
2,502 posts, read 4,436,759 times
Reputation: 3767
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Now he and his wife (an RN, both in their 30's) work in an underfunded, understaffed, and overcrowded public clinic in a small town in Mississippi. Might get a full black circle in a CR analysis, but it's not because of the doctors. Most of his patients can't afford decent clothes, much less decent health care. His salary is good enough, but his country home will never grace the pages of an architectural glossy and he's perfectly happy driving his old pickup to work. He posts pictures to Facebook of deer hunting with his kids, as well as pictures of his patients. He's happy, and all based on a Mississippi education.
If it's not the fault of the doctors, then who's fault is it? You blaming the patients for receiving bad care?

I'm going to get snarky for a second - I thought the poor had access to Medicaid, so shouldn't they get the exact same care as someone who walks in with BCBS insurance? Or is the reality that the BCBS guy gets "heroic measures" while the Medicaid guy gets amputation? So again, who's fault is it that they get a black circle? It's the patients fault for being poor and daring to try to get decent health care?
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Old 08-22-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,574 posts, read 17,286,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
If it's not the fault of the doctors, then who's fault is it? You blaming the patients for receiving bad care?

I'm going to get snarky for a second - I thought the poor had access to Medicaid, so shouldn't they get the exact same care as someone who walks in with BCBS insurance? Or is the reality that the BCBS guy gets "heroic measures" while the Medicaid guy gets amputation? So again, who's fault is it that they get a black circle? It's the patients fault for being poor and daring to try to get decent health care?
Sometimes the poor are poor because they choose to be. Medicaid is reserved for the very poor and I think we can agree that Medicaid patients do not get the same care as someone who is wealthy.

So, yeah, the Medicaid patient will get the amputation, business man get the heroic measures. Under universal health care, however, everyone gets the amputation.

The cracks in the road of life are wide, and it is easy to fall through. Best any of us can do is prepare ourselves for life, work hard, and hope for the best.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,244,282 times
Reputation: 5156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
If it's not the fault of the doctors, then who's fault is it? You blaming the patients for receiving bad care?

I'm going to get snarky for a second - I thought the poor had access to Medicaid, so shouldn't they get the exact same care as someone who walks in with BCBS insurance? Or is the reality that the BCBS guy gets "heroic measures" while the Medicaid guy gets amputation? So again, who's fault is it that they get a black circle? It's the patients fault for being poor and daring to try to get decent health care?
I'm not blaming the patients per se, and I never said they received bad care. I don't think my friend is capable of turning away someone who is sick; he's just that type of guy. But medical equipment, drugs, and supplies cost money. If the patients can't pay their bills then the clinic can't afford such niceties as repairing the broken chair in the lobby or upgrading to better X-Ray equipment, both of which would lower a CR score.

Yes, the poor have access to Medicaid... if they qualify and as long as they always jump through the correct hoops and keep all the paperwork filled out. And if they are US citizens. Unfortunately, there is a massive disconnect in this country between the "poor" and the "working poor". If you have a kid and two minimum wage jobs you technically aren't "poor" (i.e., no Medicaid), but you also cannot afford the bills when said kid falls and breaks his arm.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Johns Island
2,502 posts, read 4,436,759 times
Reputation: 3767
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkilgore View Post
Yes, the poor have access to Medicaid... if they qualify and as long as they always jump through the correct hoops and keep all the paperwork filled out. And if they are US citizens. Unfortunately, there is a massive disconnect in this country between the "poor" and the "working poor". If you have a kid and two minimum wage jobs you technically aren't "poor" (i.e., no Medicaid), but you also cannot afford the bills when said kid falls and breaks his arm.
So then you should be a proponent of some kind of universal health care? So that the working poor no longer fall through the cracks. Your paragraph above makes it abundantly clear that it is needed.
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:58 PM
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
3,045 posts, read 5,244,282 times
Reputation: 5156
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacksonPanther View Post
So then you should be a proponent of some kind of universal health care? So that the working poor no longer fall through the cracks. Your paragraph above makes it abundantly clear that it is needed.
Yes, then, I would be a proponent of some kind of universal health care. I consider health care to be essential basic infrastructure. Similar to roads, the power grid, a communication network, and public schools, health care should not be limited to the rich.
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