Harrahs Tunica to close

[Listener2307]

[quote=Mouldy Old Schmo;37672605]

Originally Posted by brickpatio

I've noticed some impressive industries popping up recently in Tunica. There is already the Greentech car plant right of I-69 where it enters Tunica County from DeSoto County. /QUOTE]

Crony capitalism at its finest.

U.S. judge hands Watchdog a victory over VA governor

Interesting stuff. But I don't understand your crony capitalism comment.

The judge in question was nominated by Bush, a Republican. If crony capitalism were in play then the judge in question would have seized the opportunity and poked McAuliffe (D) in the eye.

But he didn't. I don't know the law, but I don't see favoritism here at all. If I were a partisan judge and I had a chance to interpret the law so that it worked against McAuliffe, H Clinton, and others I would have ruled that the watchdog agency and all the Democrats involved must testify.

Looks to me like the legal system worked.

Time will tell, but most of these electric car companies are merely ways to get money out of the Feds. We've seen this before in Mississippi, where a plant is opened up after getting federal or state money and then when the investors have doubled their money (or something) they close it up.
Solar industry is full of those companies.

[Mouldy Old Schmo]

[quote=Listener2307;37674251]

Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo

Interesting stuff. But I don't understand your crony capitalism comment.

The judge in question was nominated by Bush, a Republican. If crony capitalism were in play then the judge in question would have seized the opportunity and poked McAuliffe (D) in the eye.

But he didn't. I don't know the law, but I don't see favoritism here at all. If I were a partisan judge and I had a chance to interpret the law so that it worked against McAuliffe, H Clinton, and others I would have ruled that the watchdog agency and all the Democrats involved must testify.

Looks to me like the legal system worked.

Time will tell, but most of these electric car companies are merely ways to get money out of the Feds. We've seen this before in Mississippi, where a plant is opened up after getting federal or state money and then when the investors have doubled their money (or something) they close it up.
Solar industry is full of those companies.

What I meant by "crony capitalism" is that this deal to locate GreenTech to Mississippi was between former governor Haley Barbour and Terry McAuliffe. Although they are in opposite political parties, they are pals.

GreenTech Automotive: A Venture Capitalized by Cronyism

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/ma...anted=all&_r=0

[brickpatio]

I remember that article and I agree crony capitalism is terrible for economic growth. But I think in this case Gov Barbour at the time was also acting out of the national interest beyond just economics, meaning self-defense, given that our money was going to dictators who fund or shelter terrorists (i.e. Iran). The idea, I assume, was to benefit Mississippi with some industry while also trying to help diversify the state's and the nation's energy resources. Fortunately these days through fracking and other technologies, they say America is the new Saudi Arabia for both oil and gas, so hopefully the dollars flowing to terrorists will begin to be reduced.

[Listener2307]

[quote=Mouldy Old Schmo;37677458]

Originally Posted by Listener2307

What I meant by "crony capitalism" is that this deal to locate GreenTech to Mississippi was between former governor Haley Barbour and Terry McAuliffe. Although they are in opposite political parties, they are pals.

GreenTech Automotive: A Venture Capitalized by Cronyism

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/ma...anted=all&_r=0

Thanks for the link.

The whole thing sounds like what I suspected in the first place. In this case "green" technology - or the promise of green technology - was used to curry favors and money from various government entities and private investors.

Politicians are sometimes naive. They can be sold almost anything if packaged properly and these days it is electric cars and solar power. And of course all those jobs, jobs, and jobs that politicians are always talking about.

296,500 jobs. That's what was promised by Green Tech. Good grief

[Mouldy Old Schmo]

[quote=Listener2307;37685252]

Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo

Politicians are sometimes naive.

Not Barbour and McAuliffe.

[Jardine8]

Unfortunately, according to the article below, the Tunica County plant only employs 50 people with the possibility of adding 50 more.

GreenTech Automotive Opens Tunica County Plant, Hosts Job Fair - FOX13 News, WHBQ FOX 13


I just read this line in a different article on the MyCars project:

"In the meantime, GreenTech has been using space at an old elevator factory in Horn Lake, Miss., where the company says it's building MyCars, neighborhood electric cars that are a cross between a golf cart and a full-sized vehicle. It's not clear how many of the MyCars – which are not legal to drive on U.S. highways – have been sold."


Not legal on U.S. highways? Yeah, I would say that would limit your market here.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by Jardine8

As others have said, gaming has exploded in the surrounding states. As the economy started to tighten, state legislatures have looked at ways to increase the amount of revenue coming into their state and have been more willing to allow gaming in their state. As a result, you've seen a lot more gaming going on in Louisiana, Arkansas and Alabama has several casinos. Florida has talked about it, as the legislators there are tired of their citizens in the panhandle driving to Biloxi.


I am not a big gambling fan at all but I recognize the tax revenue that it can bring in. Mississippi had an opportunity to make Tunica and Biloxi the national alternatives to Nevada and Atlantic City but blew it. The first casinos opened in Tunica and Biloxi in 1992. The window of opportunity was not open for long but it was there. If the state had pumped money into quality planned development during the 1990s, then we probably wouldn't be talking about this right now or as worried about our state's future in the casino business. Instead, they allowed a half dozen or so casinos to be built in Biloxi and Tunica and the rest was up to those cities and developers to handle. It was a missed opportunity that we won't get again. We certainly can't hope for expansion anywhere at this point, the best we can hope for is just to hang onto what portion of the market we currently have. I think even doing that would be a miracle and that our casino revenue will decline over the next 10 to 20 years with more casinos closing.

Mississippi and the casino operators DID take full advantage of the casino development opportunity. They WERE as much the alternative to Nevada and AC as could be expected. The state allows as many casinos to come in to the approved areas as are economically feasible. Mississippi was easily the #3 gaming destination behind NV & NJ for a long time. There is no way to stop other states from expanding gaming, which of course cuts into the already existing gaming. Look at AC now. They are boarding up casinos there left and right due to gaming expansion in surrounding areas. There is no way to combat that.

MS gaming is a MAJOR success story. No one figured that there would ever be so much development and revenues "in the middle of nowhere". The tallest two buildings in the entire state are casino hotels. The only other place that holds true is Nevada.

The industry is just 'right sizing' for current and ever changing conditions. The Grand/Harrah's property was pretty much doomed from design. Ever heard of a casino property with 2,200 acres?? Minnesota's Lyle Berman (ex-Grand Casino-CEO and founder) got a little/lot carried away with this flagship property.

[Jardine8]

Originally Posted by TimtheGuy

Mississippi and the casino operators DID take full advantage of the casino development opportunity. They WERE as much the alternative to Nevada and AC as could be expected. The state allows as many casinos to come in to the approved areas as are economically feasible. Mississippi was easily the #3 gaming destination behind NV & NJ for a long time. There is no way to stop other states from expanding gaming, which of course cuts into the already existing gaming. Look at AC now. They are boarding up casinos there left and right due to gaming expansion in surrounding areas. There is no way to combat that.

MS gaming is a MAJOR success story. No one figured that there would ever be so much development and revenues "in the middle of nowhere". The tallest two buildings in the entire state are casino hotels. The only other place that holds true is Nevada.

The industry is just 'right sizing' for current and ever changing conditions. The Grand/Harrah's property was pretty much doomed from design. Ever heard of a casino property with 2,200 acres?? Minnesota's Lyle Berman (ex-Grand Casino-CEO and founder) got a little/lot carried away with this flagship property.

Yes, Mississippi allowed casinos to move in. Yes, casino operators and came and built casinos. However, I still disagree that the state took full advantage of the situation. My point is that the state should have invested large amounts of money in Biloxi and Tunica to help build them into major vacation destinations. The casinos would still be the centerpiece but you have to built other things - shops, restaurants, etc - to get people to stay longer. I don't think the state did a good job of assisting in the development of those two areas and I think they missed an opportunity back in the 1990s to do so. I think both cities and their casino industries would be in a stronger position today if Mississippi had done so.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by Jardine8

Yes, Mississippi allowed casinos to move in. Yes, casino operators and came and built casinos. However, I still disagree that the state took full advantage of the situation. My point is that the state should have invested large amounts of money in Biloxi and Tunica to help build them into major vacation destinations. The casinos would still be the centerpiece but you have to built other things - shops, restaurants, etc - to get people to stay longer. I don't think the state did a good job of assisting in the development of those two areas and I think they missed an opportunity back in the 1990s to do so. I think both cities and their casino industries would be in a stronger position today if Mississippi had done so.

If only it were so simple . The state can't just plow a bunch of public TAX money into development. The can give tax breaks to developers, but even that is debatable, especially when it comes to casinos.

NO ONE thought the Mississippi casino business would become as large as it did. And they were and continue to be at risk of legalization of surrounding states. If Tennessee were to legalize, Tunica could/would be in big trouble. Same goes for Alabama and Biloxi. It has been and remains a very high risk proposition to develop casinos and supporting businesses in MS.

Atlantic City is and has everything to be a "major vacation destination" and look at what is happening there. They are losing thei a**es. MS is never going to be a "major vacation destination" no matter what they build there.

[sammyreynolds1977]

Originally Posted by TimtheGuy

If only it were so simple . The state can't just plow a bunch of public TAX money into development. The can give tax breaks to developers, but even that is debatable, especially when it comes to casinos.

NO ONE thought the Mississippi casino business would become as large as it did. And they were and continue to be at risk of legalization of surrounding states. If Tennessee were to legalize, Tunica could/would be in big trouble. Same goes for Alabama and Biloxi. It has been and remains a very high risk proposition to develop casinos and supporting businesses in MS.

Atlantic City is and has everything to be a "major vacation destination" and look at what is happening there. They are losing thei a**es. MS is never going to be a "major vacation destination" no matter what they build there.

Exactly. Memphis has already taken money away from Tunica with racetrack gambling.