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I'm sure I don't know anyone else who had their own ad man and can maintain a conversation about nematodes and Alsatian architectural precedents! What do you think is going to happen with downtown Madison? I know they've hired a company to complete the design. Will it be just an outdoor mall-type development, or could it possibly be a real downtown??
I'm pretty sure you know dozens of people who are (and whose businesses are) clients of firms offering 'Integrated Marketing Services' (I think that's term...). I'm hardly special, in that regard.
I would certainly hope Madison's WON'T be a 'real downtown'! That would mean it would be vacant and unusable, like almost every other 'real downtown' in the whole Southeast. And I would hope that nobody with power is listening to the silly little academics pushing "New Urbanism", which I consider to be a great big smelly crock of ugly word.
New Urbanism is fine for places where the populace has been run through some sort of filter, to ensure that pretty-much nobody but affluent and educated Northeast Asians and Northwest Europeans will be around. That does not describe the demographics in the LaRitaville Metropolitan Area.
Anyway, the last time I was listening (a few years back), someone was saying the scheme had devolved into some dinky little bunch of Williamsburgy little buildings - the usual New Urbanist pap - rather than the thrilling version that had people so excited (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase.../madison_s.jpg) When I heard that the big building with integrated parking was gone, and that there would be several streets, and many itty-bitty blocks, and a "square", I basically turned off input on that subject, in the same way that I turned off input on happenings in the Middle East, in maybe '92. (They'll always be fighting over there. They'll always be horrible. Who cares what they're doing now...) So, I think people have told me about new plans. But whatever they were saying didn't make it past my outer-ears.
I wish them luck, and hope it's a smashing success. Presumably, there's a whole new design - again - and maybe this time, it will be less irritatingly broken-up and "quaint". But if there are cobblestones, you can bet I won't prematurely age my tires/suspension by driving around - even once. And if there is music blaring from the bushes, like there is at 'Renaissance-at-whatever', in Ridgeland, even if someone else is driving, I won't go there a second time, even if we build in Madison, again.
But why would I go there a FIRST TIME? Unless Lady Scott or Maison Weiss move in, I doubt there will be anything of interest to someone like me. I don't imagine there will be any Kosher Vegetarian places... Maybe if there were a Whole Foods Co-op... And truly, I really don't enjoy shopping in the Jackson area, because all the "cute little boutiques" are owned by Ole Miss types (bitter divorcees, trophy wives, or daughters of Doctors), who are not exactly nice to people like me. When we did live in Madison, we had taken to weekending in Louisiana, and did our shopping there, because the people in the stores were just so much nicer than the ones around Jackson.
On the bright side, I LOVE what they've done with Grandview Boulevard. If there were anything there that I needed or wanted, or could eat, I would LOVE to shop/dine there. The scale of the buildings is thrilling, and the layout is really convenient. The stretch of Apricot & Khaki colored buildings is really pretty. Somebody said "It's like taking a mini-vacation in Italy - but with parking... and without pickpockets!"
The Wal-Mart on Grandview is a nice place to go, if you're staying at the Hilton Garden Inn, and want to pick up postits, or gift bags, or mouthwash, or gift labels, or whatever, in the middle of the night. The parking lot is pretty, and the building is actually prettier than most of the structures in seriously exclusive communities - even in famous shopping districts like Rodeo Drive. Aside from another WalMart in a rich little Appalachian town in Tennessee, it's the only Wal-Mart where a lady in an Aston Martin can go, at night, and expect to not be carjacked/murdered.
"Music coming out of the bushes" at the Renaissance...ha! Your posts are always good for at least one laugh-out-loud moment. Thank for you that.
I hate hearing that daughters of doctors (and such) in FNEJ, are not exactly nice to people like you, but I know exactly what you mean. I assume you are referring to your family heritage, (Native American if memory serves, or at least partial, I think) and it's infuriating that someone as clever as you would feel unappreciated. To be blunt, that sucks,...even if you couldn't care less and probably feel sorry for those kinds of small, narrow minded types. Oh well....that's why Jackson needs more of you and your types to shake things up, in a good way of course.
I hope Madison's downtown isn't quaint and boring. Surely not after all this planning! They did hire the group that built the Summit in Birmingham, which I believe has been hugely successful from a business standpoint. At least it appears so. But to make it worth doing, it needs life, authenticity, and feeling of buzz.
Interestingly, Highland Village does feel somewhat authentic, and the last time I was there, I was imagining what it might be like if a charming street were running through it where the outdoor plaza is.
There is a certain genius in having stores that basically have two front doors...a front door to a back parking lot for convenience and safety...and also a front door to a picturesque outdoor plaza or even better a charming walking street. That way shoppers have a choice to either park at the front door and come in and out quickly...or if they so choose, to come and stay for a while and meander among the other shops. I'm guessing that's the only way to make an urban type environment financially feasible as a new shopping center, i.e. if shoppers can still park at the front door of each store, which means each store basically having a front door in the front (for the parking lot) and in the back (for the charming, walkable street-front which is what everybody wants)
In any event, I'm not expert on how to create authenticity and vibrancy out of whole cloth in a new development. I do think the Township at Colony Park is lovely. Someone out there must know how to create a real downtown within a single development though. I guess we'll see what Madison comes up with, sooner rather than later...
"Music coming out of the bushes" at the Renaissance...ha! Your posts are always good for at least one laugh-out-loud moment. Thank for you that.
I hate hearing that daughters of doctors (and such) in FNEJ, are not exactly nice to people like you, but I know exactly what you mean. I assume you are referring to your family heritage, (Native American if memory serves, or at least partial, I think) and it's infuriating that someone as clever as you would feel unappreciated. To be blunt, that sucks,...even if you couldn't care less and probably feel sorry for those kinds of small, narrow minded types. Oh well....that's why Jackson needs more of you and your types to shake things up, in a good way of course.
I hope Madison's downtown isn't quaint and boring. Surely not after all this planning! They did hire the group that built the Summit in Birmingham, which I believe has been hugely successful from a business standpoint. At least it appears so. But to make it worth doing, it needs life, authenticity, and feeling of buzz.
Interestingly, Highland Village does feel somewhat authentic, and the last time I was there, I was imagining what it might be like if a charming street were running through it where the outdoor plaza is.
There is a certain genius in having stores that basically have two front doors...a front door to a back parking lot for convenience and safety...and also a front door to a picturesque outdoor plaza or even better a charming walking street. That way shoppers have a choice to either park at the front door and come in and out quickly...or if they so choose, to come and stay for a while and meander among the other shops. I'm guessing that's the only way to make an urban type environment financially feasible as a new shopping center, i.e. if shoppers can still park at the front door of each store, which means each store basically having a front door in the front (for the parking lot) and in the back (for the charming, walkable street-front which is what everybody wants)
In any event, I'm not expert on how to create authenticity and vibrancy out of whole cloth in a new development. I do think the Township at Colony Park is lovely. Someone out there must know how to create a real downtown within a single development though. I guess we'll see what Madison comes up with, sooner rather than later...
If I remember correctly, from my one trip into Renaissance, running from the car, into Williams Sonoma, looking for Quisinart replacement blades... which, of course, they "Can order for you!", the speakers are fake rocks, inserted into the plantings. The music (the eleven seconds' worth I could not avoid hearing) was not as bad as what they play in the Madison Kroger, or the Gorgeous new Madison Walgreen's, or the Madison Courthouse gym - all of which I avoid, when in town - because of the music. Andrew Mattiace has enough class to keep 'Seventies Top 40 Hits' from being played at Renaissance. Instead, it sounded like what Ole Miss types would consider 'artsy'/'folksongish' - about like what they play in Lemuria. I went into Lemuria very seldom, because that music drove me crazy. At Renaissance, there was so much 'base', it actually hurt my ears - hence the running from and to the car. And I don't want to hear vocals. The music kept us from exploring the center.
Adolph Hitler knew, in the 1930s, that soundwaves near the infrasonic range create feelings of hostility and panic. So, he had giant speakers at his rallies, emitting those soundwaves - heightening all the feelings of hatred he was creating with his words. So, the effects of infrasound have been known for nearly a century. Yet, we have businesses whose speakers are emitting infrasound - driving away customers - causing customers to leave at the earliest possible opportunity... Creating irritation/negative feelings, when positive frames of mind move the merchandise. Not so smart...
Several people have messaged me, in the last few days, that the big weightroom at the 'mother ship' Courthouse has a new "good" sound system, and that the "base" is driving them crazy. They're shopping other fitness venues, as a result.
I don't think that it was my color which bothered the princesses in the boutiques, as much as the fact that I don't speak with their accent, don't wear makeup, don't pluck my beautiful Native American eyebrows, don't 'git my nailz did', don't wear earrings or heels... And we chose first and last names which scream OLD MONEY. I think my color was definitely one factor: but the rather alien 'totality of me' was just something they could not process, and I think I short-circuited those Fembots. They were sooooo like, "Who do you think you are, thinking you can come up into my store and buy stationery from ME?!"
But all sorts of other people have had similar experiences, and so I do not feel singled-out.
I agree that Highland Village is wonderful. And it's been getting rave reviews, nonstop, since it was built. People from California and New York, accustomed to posh shopping venues, were impressed. If ever there was a model for what will work in Mississippi, Highland Village is IT. And for what it is, I think that The Quarter, on Lakeland, is pretty amazing. Urban planners could learn a lot from The Quarter.
My Decorator was reading your post at the same time I was, and messaged me to say, "Summit in Birmingham is SO not Madison! Looks like Dogwood Festival on steroids." I agree. And I hope that the group engaged to do the Town Center/Downtown in Madison are going to be in charge of orchestrating the totality, rather than imposing Summit's rather sleazy/Florida/Vegas aesthetic on Madison.
I believe the Courthouse locations are now either owned or leased by UMC, I can't see that ending well.
Yep. The crowd that killed the Downtown YMCA will be there, in DROVES. AND I don't like the idea of the outfit hired to run the place for next-to-nothing having access to my personal information. We were getting a good deal, since we'd been members since the late Eighties. So, it was worth the negligible membership fee, to have access to the clubs when we were in the area. But it's not worth the risk. I really don't like some third party having access to personal information.
Didn't read past the first post but I lived and worked in BSL and the Pass. LOVELY places to live and work. I really miss it - had my child at Hancock hospital in BSL pre-Katrina. I'm afraid to go back - what I see of my old neighborhood in the Pass doesn't look good .
Instead of starting a brand new thread I'll just piggyback off this one...
I may be looking at a promotion at work that would take me to Mississippi. I grew up in NC and we've lived in Charlotte since 2008 and we love it. It's going to hurt leaving this area. Although the traffic stinks at times we're close to a large airport, a beautiful lake, plenty of golf, 1.5 hours to the mountains, 3.5 to the SC beaches and plenty of eating from fast food to very high end. We live in a large, very social neighborhood with mostly young families with a large pool, basketball courts, soccer field, and tennis.
We are set as far as employment goes, wife works from home and I will need to live so that I can easily make driving trips to parts of Arkansas, Alabama and Louisiana. I'm going to list what's important and would love to here some suggestions.
*We're a social family, would like a neighborhood with younger families looking to make new friends. Homes don't have to be huge 1700-2000 sq ft. is fine.
*We have a 3 year old daughter who loves her gymnastics classes. Good schools a MUST.
*We can't wait to explore the gulf communities so we can't be too far from those.
* I. Love. Golf. I need to be able to play some decent courses.
*We appreciate the cute downtown scenes with shops and cafes.
* I NEED to be close to a commercial airport. 60 min tops.
* Low crime
From the research I've done it seems that Jackson is not desirable however the towns north of there like Clinton, Ridgeland and Madison are quite nice. Supposedly there's a reservoir there for boating?
I responded to your great question on the other thread, but in re-reading your points above, I'll add that for golfing in the Jackson metro area, you might consider googling randy watkins. He owns several courses in the metro area, including Whisper Lake (a part of the Annandale residential area) and Lake Caroline course (these two courses are both in the Madison area and within 5 minutes of each other), both of which have neighborhoods that fit your description perfectly.
There are numerous other courses in the Jackson metro (Deerfield, which is also in the Madison area), Annandale in Madison (home of PGA tournament), Jackson Country Club (hosted PGA tournament this past year), Reunion (also in Madison), and in Rankin County, Castlewoods, Bay Point, Patrick Farms and the Refuge.
Also, on the Coast I mentioned the Diamondhead community. This entire community is centered around a golf course, and being near the Coast it also has a marina at the Bay of St Louis, that opens onto the gulf. Of course the Coast has many more golf courses given the great weather, and also because of the casino hotels which built some top courses all along the Coast. This area is ideal for golf. You can google to review a list of all the courses down there.
On another note, I didn't mention a development north of Biloxi and Gulfport called "Tradition", which is fairly new and designed to feel like a traditional, quaint small town. Presently they have their own little lake, YMCA, tennis courts, and community restaurant and store. The schools are good in this area. Right now it's probably just 100 homes or so, guessing, but my understanding is that eventually, say 30 years from now, it's designed to grow into a full city with up to 30,000 people. It's not growing that fast so far but overall I would say it meets your criteria (safe, sense of community, accessible to charming areas along the coast, airport, and lots of golf in the area).
An even wealthier version of this in the area is called Florence Gardens in Gulfport, which I absolutely adore. All the homes are brand-new but have that historic coastal architectural look, including a town center with smaller homes designed for younger families, artists, empty nesters etc. They have preserved the forests, etc around the development. Given the great weather and location, this would definitely be on my list of places to live. I don't know about the public schools in that spot; I know they are building a private school in the actual neighborhood.
Also in my other posting I didn't mention Starkville but it's a young, college town with some great new neighborhoods for families. It's very safe, clean and livable. And neighboring Columbus has been attracting some very large-scale new industrial projects (e.g. steel, aircraft and helicopter manufacturing, truck engine and tire manufacturing). They have some nice golf courses (e.g. Old Waverly which has hosted LPGA championships and is home to Mississippi State golf team). My only reservation is schools. Starkville has two private schools and okay public schools also but I'm not as positive how highly rated the public schools area. I think the highest rated public schools in that region are outside Columbus (Caledonia which is suburban and semi-rural) and east of Starkville (East Webster which is rural). That said, most professors and university administrators send their children to Starkville public schools as reflected in some of the very high test scores in their schools.
Overall, you have some great choices with Madison, Brandon, Ocean Springs, Gulfport-Biloxi, Diamondhead, Hattiesburg, Oxford, DeSoto County, Starkville and Tupelo.
I've lived in Bay St. Louis for the past 4 years. I actually prefer Ocean Springs, and Pass is nice for a stroll. Natchez was scary a few years back when we visited during Pilgrimage. We stayed in a lovely Bed and Breakfast (shout out to Devereaux Shields House!) in an historic neighborhood, but the streets were surprisingly deserted, not a lot going on, run down and shady areas. We did LOVE the huge cemetery and spent hours there exploring, but overall it wasn't what I expected. Vicksburg is a nice trip. If I had to choose where to live in Mississippi, I would have to go with Ocean Springs, minus the exorbitant insurance costs on the Gulf. North Mississippi has possibilities, and Tupelo is very nice but busy. As an aside, Alabama ............. well, there's a reason it's called Alabama the Beautiful! Esp Huntsville and Birmingham
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