Flag trouble stirs again. (Oxford: living in, safe, rating)

[Desert kid]

I'm vouching sammyreynold's got what's going to happen.

Now, what the legislature does in January is up in the air.

[sammyreynolds1977]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

I'm vouching sammyreynold's got what's going to happen.

Now, what the legislature does in January is up in the air.

Personally I don't think they'll do anything unless political or financial pressure is put on them.

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by sammyreynolds1977

Personally I don't think they'll do anything unless political or financial pressure is put on them.

Yep.

As of late (as shown in my other thread) I'm more concerned for getting school rolling at the moment.

[Linda_d]

Originally Posted by jwkilgore

Sort of. It's basically the original "Stars and Bars" with the state seal added in the middle of the stars. But it isn't exactly like the Confederate Flag.

Georgia State Flag:


"Stars and Bars", original flag of the CSA:



Which reinforces my stance. The Battle Flag isn't being protested because of its limited association with slavery, it's being protested over its use during Jim Crow. Every time African Americans tried to assert that "All men are created equal", racists clutching that flag did everything they could to prove otherwise. And yes, they also clutched the US flag, but it's the Battle Flag that became the symbol of oppression.

+10.

At one time, the Battle Flag was associated with remembrances of the Civil War, primarily by people whose ancestors fought in that war, but since the Civil Rights movement began making serious inroads against Jim Crow in the 1950s, it's been co-opted by racists as the symbol of segregation and racism. In that respect, it's like the swastika which was co-opted by the Nazis as the symbol of their Reich and has forever more become a symbol of anti-Semitism.

[Linda_d]

Originally Posted by Desert kid

Part of the reason why I chose Ole Miss was because of it's Civil War history. I've been a Civil War buff since I was 13. If I'm going to continue to Graduate Studies, it's going to be on this subject, where I will be discussing it ALL THE TIME. A Confederate Battle Flag is no more offensive to me than the battle flag of the 20th Maine Infantry. And I own both! I can very well tell you the difference between the Confederate Battle Flag and the Flag of Hardee's Corps.

Ole Miss offers a graduate program in that field that I took heavy interest in. When I was in Oxford last year I saw Anthony Hervey walking around the town square, he was allegedly killed for being a flag supporter, being chased down a dark highway and crashed. The details will probably never be known. I really liked Oxford, I didn't see race, or anything like that. I saw a historical little town that I really liked.

Calling people "ConfedeRacists" does nothing but inflame. Phil Bryant says he isn't going to call up a special session, the "projected" vote by the media (Mississippi State Flag: Will State Remove Confederate Symbol?) says similar. Most polls taken in MS over the last 8 or so weeks say "no". Will it be changed in he far future? Possibly. But definitely not for the time being.

Take it from somebody who's also a Civil War buff, and who has PhD in American history: don't let romanticism blind you to the fact that the Civil War was as nasty a business as the US ever engaged in. There is nothing romantic or glorious about 600,000+ Americans, more than died in all other American wars combined, dying in 4 years of fighting, most from disease or non-battle related injuries.

There was nothing glorious about the Confederate "cause", either. As per usual in wars, a great many of the young men in both armies went to war because they thought it would be a glorious adventure but of those who actually had political reasons, it comes down to slaveholders fighting/supporting the Confederacy to preserve and expand their right to own other people like they owned horses or cattle. Non-slaveholders fought because they wanted to be slaveholders, because the Southern economy was utterly dependent upon slavery, and because they were drafted (the Confederacy instituted a military draft in 1862, a full year before the Union did).

[Desert kid]

Originally Posted by Linda_d

Take it from somebody who's also a Civil War buff, and who has PhD in American history: don't let romanticism blind you to the fact that the Civil War was as nasty a business as the US ever engaged in. There is nothing romantic or glorious about 600,000+ Americans, more than died in all other American wars combined, dying in 4 years of fighting, most from disease or non-battle related injuries.

There was nothing glorious about the Confederate "cause", either. As per usual in wars, a great many of the young men in both armies went to war because they thought it would be a glorious adventure but of those who actually had political reasons, it comes down to slaveholders fighting/supporting the Confederacy to preserve and expand their right to own other people like they owned horses or cattle. Non-slaveholders fought because they wanted to be slaveholders, because the Southern economy was utterly dependent upon slavery, and because they were drafted (the Confederacy instituted a military draft in 1862, a full year before the Union did).

I saw how nasty a business the Civil War was when I went to see the Hornet's Nest at Shiloh and the Louisiana Redan at Vicksburg. Not to mention the Oak Alley and Myrtles Plantations in Louisiana, slave cabins, collars and all that stuff still intact. I have a distant relative from Granbury's Texas Brigade who did some time at Camp Douglas, it's also on my bucket list to visit Point Lookout and Andersonville. I was helping my cousin with some genealogy the other day and found she had an ancestor in Longstreet's Corps at Gettysburg. I own all sorts of flags from that time period, Union and Confederate. My favorite happens to be Hardee's Corps.

However, Mississippi chose it's current state flag in 1894 and chose to keep it in 2001. As sammyreynolds has said the numbers, if put to a vote, would be similar. But that's a big reason why I chose MS, the history isn't even past, as William Faulkner would put it.

[Jardine8]

I think the vote would be closer this time around than it was in 2001, though I still think the majority would vote to keep the current flag. What is so wrong about putting the flag in a museum and picking a new flag?

[Southern man]

Originally Posted by Jardine8

I think the vote would be closer this time around than it was in 2001, though I still think the majority would vote to keep the current flag. What is so wrong about putting the flag in a museum and picking a new flag?

The same people that are offended seeing it at the courthouse will be offended seeing it at the museum. Just leave it where its at.

[annie_himself]

Originally Posted by Southern man

The same people that are offended seeing it at the courthouse will be offended seeing it at the museum. Just leave it where its at.

Jews don't get angry at WWII museums, but then again, it's not socially acceptable to fly the flag they hate in public in America.

It belongs in a museum, not flying above government buildings.

[Jardine8]

Originally Posted by annie_himself

Jews don't get angry at WWII museums, but then again, it's not socially acceptable to fly the flag they hate in public in America.

It belongs in a museum, not flying above government buildings.

I agree.