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Old 01-21-2019, 10:04 AM
 
991 posts, read 1,044,519 times
Reputation: 1996
No doubt that Casinos overbuilt just about everywhere. Casinos have done well on the coast, but that's the state's only real tourist area.

Two things about the article:

1. In explaining why tax revenues from the heyday of the casinos weren't used to improve the life of the poorer citizens they tried to play up the race issue but stating that until recently most local elected officials were white, which I doubt is accurate (elected sheriffs in Tunica County have been black since 1990 - casino gambling was legalized the same year).

2. Several locals whose income has been impacted by the decline of casinos where interviewed (along with complaints of their income decreasing). Hello, you live 30 miles from Memphis, go find a decent job in a large metropolitan area!

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na...dhgRrMixGdQsLk

Last edited by viverlibre; 01-21-2019 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 01-22-2019, 12:08 AM
 
779 posts, read 802,472 times
Reputation: 896
Do people not understand the reason why revenues there have fallen? Because when those casinos were built, there was no competition. Mississippi was the only state in the southeast that had casinos. Now most states have them. Louisiana, Missouri and Oklahoma were the start of the decline. After that other states followed. Like you said the only region here where casinos are actually making money is on the coast. Casinos are still a $2 billion dollar business. The taxes that come from the casinos totally over $200 million.
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:58 AM
 
Location: PNW, CPSouth, JacksonHole, Southampton
3,336 posts, read 4,612,107 times
Reputation: 12644
Quote:
Originally Posted by viverlibre View Post
No doubt that Casinos overbuilt just about everywhere. Casinos have done well on the coast, but that's the state's only real tourist area.

Two things about the article:

1. In explaining why tax revenues from the heyday of the casinos weren't used to improve the life of the poorer citizens they tried to play up the race issue but stating that until recently most local elected officials were white, which I doubt is accurate (elected sheriffs in Tunica County have been black since 1990 - casino gambling was legalized the same year).

2. Several locals whose income has been impacted by the decline of casinos where interviewed (along with complaints of their income decreasing). Hello, you live 30 miles from Memphis, go find a decent job in a large metropolitan area!

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na...dhgRrMixGdQsLk
One has to admit, the Planners managed to put in amenities VERY attractive to the kind of residents one would want to attract (airports, the Aquatic Center, and Soccer fields) - amenities which further disenfranchise the sorts one would hope would move away. Not very humanitarian - but CRAFTY.

So really, the Planners DID have a 'Plan B': Use casinos to fund infrastructure and amenities attractive to Middle Class types fleeing Memphis (and fleeing places like Southaven, once it gets ruined by problematic Memphians following the Memphians who've fled the problematic Memphians... whew... ).

Let's see: Who flies planes, can swim, and plays Soccer? Who can't/doesn't do those things? Hmmmmm.....

Those planning for the future, are setting-up Tunica County, to be the next Southaven.

As for the poor of Tunica County, you're right. Memphis is sure a lot closer and easier to get to, than were the places to which my uncles moved, in the Forties, Fifties, and Sixties. For most who fled Mississippi in decades past, there were narrow dirt roads leading "out".

I'm told, and it may be true, that those leaving Mississippi, prayed they had enough money for gas, to make it to Nashville, Knoxville, or Chattanooga, and that the car wouldn't break down. There was no money for food. "And if you broke down, thur wudd'n nothin' ta do, but smother thuh childern, an' shoot yerself an' yer wahf in thuh hayid."

I don't know if that ever really happened. But that's how dark and desperate things were, back then. Maybe that's why two generations of uncles just left. Women and children would have weighed them down, making a rough situation into a life-and-death situation.

Maybe that Bartender in the article, needs to stop smoking Camel Lights, and get his lazy toches to Southaven, where there are plenty of jobs, building new homes for those fleeing Mayumfii. Looks like Southaven is a fifteen-minute drive - or less - from where he's working, now.

Are the Los Angeles Times' "reporters" aware that Mississippians have access to cars, are no longer subject to being bought and sold as chattel slaves, and are perfectly capable of removing themselves to places which are NOT poor, and which DO have jobs? Hollywood seems not to have gotten the memo that Mississippians have Air Conditioning (https://www.weeklystandard.com/john-...ime-to-schvitz). So, it's conceivable that "reporters" down in LA, might think Mississippians still own slaves, and that's why people are stuck in Tunica County - 'cause they're slaves - tied to the land. Too, in every horror flick we watch, a key part of the premise seems to be that people are unable to leave The Old Sanitarium/The Cabin/The town/The Island - and so maybe that's just how people think, down at that end of the Pacific Coast Highway.

I grew up in a shack every bit as bad as anything in Sugar Ditch. I moved away, to get training (picking up a husband, kids, and an apartment building or three, while there). Then we moved to Jackson, where nobodies from nowhere, like us, moved, if we wanted to have jobs and lives. Then, we moved out here, when the redneck lynch mob destroyed the Madison CVS.

And every one of those moves, was a lot farther than from Tunica to Memphis - a distance plenty of people consider to be a short daily commute. People probably DO make that exact commute, every workday.

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 01-22-2019 at 03:15 AM..
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:53 AM
 
141 posts, read 86,517 times
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And really why drive all the way to Memphis; there are loads of jobs right there in DeSoto County? Plus there's a brand-new outer loop interstate that starts in Tunica and runs plum all the way through Olive Branch and around to Germantown and beyond, with hardly any cars on it yet. They could practically sleep while driving the full 20 minutes to their employer (if they wanted to that is).
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Old 01-23-2019, 08:38 AM
 
1,691 posts, read 1,258,172 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyreynolds1977 View Post
Do people not understand the reason why revenues there have fallen? Because when those casinos were built, there was no competition. Mississippi was the only state in the southeast that had casinos. Now most states have them. Louisiana, Missouri and Oklahoma were the start of the decline. After that other states followed. Like you said the only region here where casinos are actually making money is on the coast. Casinos are still a $2 billion dollar business. The taxes that come from the casinos totally over $200 million.
Exactly. All of the states around us saw the casino revenues and decided to get in at some point since casinos opened in Mississippi in the 1990s. Most elected officials who had any moral or religious objection to casinos in their state suddenly changed their tune when the economy tanked in 2008/2009. They were ready to do just about anything during that time period to turn things around in their states and they opened up to gaming as a resolution.


So, yes, competition came in and, at this point, there is so much competition that all we can do is hope that our casino areas (Tunica & Biloxi primarily but some in other areas) just hold on to what business they currently have. With the competition existing now, it seems unlikely that we can find a way to grow the casino industry again.


I have mentioned before that I really think Mississippi should have gone all-in on Biloxi & Tunica during the 1990s when we had a head-start on gambling compared to our neighboring states. By building up and investing on both areas to have many more attractions than just casinos, they might have been able to insulate themselves somewhat from competition when it inevitably came. Somehow, we would have needed to make both Tunica and Biloxi vacation destinations that had so much more to do than just gambling so that when other states opened casinos, we could still hopefully draw a good number of tourists.


Instead, we limited the casino industry and boxed ourselves in and the advantage of time that we had is now completely gone. Granted, that is fairly typical of Mississippi leadership - not thinking ahead and being unwilling to really commit to long-term plans and visions.


Tunica today is in a more precarious condition than Biloxi, as Biloxi simply as more going for it, being that it is on the gulf coast. So, what would you do with Tunica? Would you allow time to take it's course and just realize that Tunica is going to die a slow death or do you try to do something to see if the developments there can be saved?
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Old 01-23-2019, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Jack-town, Sip by way of TN, AL and FL
1,387 posts, read 1,027,026 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardine8 View Post
Exactly. All of the states around us saw the casino revenues and decided to get in at some point since casinos opened in Mississippi in the 1990s. Most elected officials who had any moral or religious objection to casinos in their state suddenly changed their tune when the economy tanked in 2008/2009. They were ready to do just about anything during that time period to turn things around in their states and they opened up to gaming as a resolution.

So, yes, competition came in and, at this point, there is so much competition that all we can do is hope that our casino areas (Tunica & Biloxi primarily but some in other areas) just hold on to what business they currently have. With the competition existing now, it seems unlikely that we can find a way to grow the casino industry again.

I have mentioned before that I really think Mississippi should have gone all-in on Biloxi & Tunica during the 1990s when we had a head-start on gambling compared to our neighboring states. By building up and investing on both areas to have many more attractions than just casinos, they might have been able to insulate themselves somewhat from competition when it inevitably came. Somehow, we would have needed to make both Tunica and Biloxi vacation destinations that had so much more to do than just gambling so that when other states opened casinos, we could still hopefully draw a good number of tourists.

Instead, we limited the casino industry and boxed ourselves in and the advantage of time that we had is now completely gone. Granted, that is fairly typical of Mississippi leadership - not thinking ahead and being unwilling to really commit to long-term plans and visions.

Tunica today is in a more precarious condition than Biloxi, as Biloxi simply as more going for it, being that it is on the gulf coast. So, what would you do with Tunica? Would you allow time to take it's course and just realize that Tunica is going to die a slow death or do you try to do something to see if the developments there can be saved?
With all due respect, this is a bad take.

First of all, Mississippi DID go all-in on casinos in the 90s. I'll come back to this.

Second, Tunica and Biloxi are two totally different animals.

Tunica is drying up and Biloxi is thriving. Why? Because Tunica is in the middle of nowhere and Biloxi is in an area with a ton of other stuff to do on the Coast. End of story. Competition certainly hurt Tunica as it had nothing else to offer, whereas Biloxi is WINNING a lot of the competition with other states.

Fast forward to 2019, and Mississippi has capitalized on the sports-betting world. How did they do it? BECAUSE they went all in on casinos back in the 90s and had the infrastructure conducive to it. Other states will certainly follow the example, but MS will continue to have a leg up. The sports books have been incredibly successful in drawing out-of-state patrons. I'm really interested to see what they will look like during the Super Bowl and NCAA tournament.
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:32 AM
 
1,691 posts, read 1,258,172 times
Reputation: 1626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line View Post
With all due respect, this is a bad take.

First of all, Mississippi DID go all-in on casinos in the 90s. I'll come back to this.

Second, Tunica and Biloxi are two totally different animals.

Tunica is drying up and Biloxi is thriving. Why? Because Tunica is in the middle of nowhere and Biloxi is in an area with a ton of other stuff to do on the Coast. End of story. Competition certainly hurt Tunica as it had nothing else to offer, whereas Biloxi is WINNING a lot of the competition with other states.

Fast forward to 2019, and Mississippi has capitalized on the sports-betting world. How did they do it? BECAUSE they went all in on casinos back in the 90s and had the infrastructure conducive to it. Other states will certainly follow the example, but MS will continue to have a leg up. The sports books have been incredibly successful in drawing out-of-state patrons. I'm really interested to see what they will look like during the Super Bowl and NCAA tournament.



I disagree with your assessment that my post was a "bad take" and stand by my post. You didn't specify how Mississippi went "all-in" on casinos in the 1990s. The State Legislature changed the law and allowed casinos in certain restricted areas but, to my knowledge, the state didn't do much to encourage other types of development\attractions around the casinos.


They just changed the law and allowed whatever was going to take place to take place. That is poor planning and a better long-term plan was needed to try to build up the areas around the casinos and protect these investments from competition when other states started trying to get in on the action. The State is paying the price now for their lack of long-term planning, as revenue from the casinos will likely continue to fall due to competition.


You mention "Tunica and Biloxi are two totally different animals". You say this as if you are assuming that I am a non-Mississippian who doesn't know either of these two areas. I am from Mississippi and have visited both places and recognize the differences between the two. I mention both of them because the gaming industry in Mississippi is primarily centered in those two areas. I would agree with your assessment that Biloxi can survive as a city and do well because it is more diversified and has more attractions. That really on strengthens the argument in my previous posts, though (ie there should have been more effort to development more attractions).


I still maintain that the State wet the bed when they had a legitimate opportunity to totally transform these areas and fully capitalize on the small window that they had for gaming. They had a window open where they had virtually no competition in the deep south and they could have done more but now that window is now closed forever.

Last edited by Jardine8; 01-23-2019 at 10:42 AM..
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Old 01-23-2019, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Jack-town, Sip by way of TN, AL and FL
1,387 posts, read 1,027,026 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardine8 View Post
I disagree with your assessment that my post was a "bad take" and stand by my post. You didn't specify how Mississippi went "all-in" on casinos in the 1990s. The State Legislature changed the law and allowed casinos in certain restricted areas but, to my knowledge, the state didn't do much to encourage other types of development\attractions around the casinos.
Agree to disagree, though I still can't see how you arrived at this viewpoint.

Casinos waaaaay overbuilt around, as viverlibre originally stated in the OP. State dumped a lot of money into building a new Tunica Airport and getting commercial service there, which ended up being a mistake. Roads were built and widened. There were all kinds of private developments there and in the other casinos like Pearl River Resort. I just do not realize how anyone can say that the state, or anyone, "wet the bed". The only mistake I see is not concentrating all the casinos in Biloxi, Vicksburg and Natchez (areas with tourist draws). Tunica, Greenville and Philadelphia were just dumb areas to do it, middle of nowhere. I'm oversimplifying but you get the point.

Incentives were given, but the reason that Tunica has failed is due to location and competition, bottom line. Everything that could be done, WAS done.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:39 PM
 
779 posts, read 802,472 times
Reputation: 896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jardine8 View Post
Exactly. All of the states around us saw the casino revenues and decided to get in at some point since casinos opened in Mississippi in the 1990s. Most elected officials who had any moral or religious objection to casinos in their state suddenly changed their tune when the economy tanked in 2008/2009. They were ready to do just about anything during that time period to turn things around in their states and they opened up to gaming as a resolution.


So, yes, competition came in and, at this point, there is so much competition that all we can do is hope that our casino areas (Tunica & Biloxi primarily but some in other areas) just hold on to what business they currently have. With the competition existing now, it seems unlikely that we can find a way to grow the casino industry again.


I have mentioned before that I really think Mississippi should have gone all-in on Biloxi & Tunica during the 1990s when we had a head-start on gambling compared to our neighboring states. By building up and investing on both areas to have many more attractions than just casinos, they might have been able to insulate themselves somewhat from competition when it inevitably came. Somehow, we would have needed to make both Tunica and Biloxi vacation destinations that had so much more to do than just gambling so that when other states opened casinos, we could still hopefully draw a good number of tourists.


Instead, we limited the casino industry and boxed ourselves in and the advantage of time that we had is now completely gone. Granted, that is fairly typical of Mississippi leadership - not thinking ahead and being unwilling to really commit to long-term plans and visions.


Tunica today is in a more precarious condition than Biloxi, as Biloxi simply as more going for it, being that it is on the gulf coast. So, what would you do with Tunica? Would you allow time to take it's course and just realize that Tunica is going to die a slow death or do you try to do something to see if the developments there can be saved?
The main reason the state never took advantage was they never wanted them in the first place
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:14 PM
 
991 posts, read 1,044,519 times
Reputation: 1996
Two things about MS Casinos:

1. How no one could figure out some sort of exemption to get one in downtown Jxn shows how little forethought and vision city leaders have employed for some time. The convention center is losing money hand over fist, turn it into a casino!

2. The two-lane highway (Hwy 16) that runs from Hwy 25 to the Silver Star/Golden Moon is among the worst in the state. This is the main route one would travel from the metro. Why haven't the Choctaws complained so loudly that it forced the state to take action?
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