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I'm not asking people to date other races for the sake of doing so. I'm just making observations. When I notice common behavior in one community, usually I conclude it's acceptable. It's more common to see gay relationships in San Francisco. It's more common to see interracial relationships in Wisconsin. Since it's more common, I figure it's more acceptable. So I think that's pretty relevant.
I have quite a few relatives up here involved in interacial white/black relationships; including three uncles whom have been married to the same white ladies since the 60s & 70s. There has NEVER been anti-miscegenation laws in Wisconsin & Minnesota. Our border states (Iowa, Illinois) even got rid of those laws in the 1800s. Mississippi just repealed its anti-miscegenation law close to 1970, and the federal government had to force them to do it. Some towns in Mississippi still have separate white/black high school proms (And I suppose this has nothing to do with race ). So you still want to believe black/white male-female relationships are just as acceptable in Mississippi as they are up here? Just because MS no longer has an anti-miscegenation laws, doesn't mean there's still not a lag period between the repeal of the law, and "what's culturally acceptable" in the state.
You gave me examples of white men in relationships with black females (Of course this has always been going on in the south, whether or not the females were forced into the relationship or not) But what about black males with white females? That's the real test. Your anecdotes are touching, but anecdotes don't always tell the whole picture.
Did you realize some towns in Georgia have seperate white/black proms? Did you also realize Alabama has segregated Mardi Gras celebrations?
If you want to try painting the people of Mississippi as racist and intolerant because the anti-miscegenation law was only repealed or overturned in the 1960's, then do the same for Arizona, Indiana, Maryland, Utah, Wyoming, Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia. The last 15 listed were forced to do so by the federal government, and Maryland only repealed it after the beginning of the Loving v. Virginia case in 1967.
Take this in as well. California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon, and South Dakota only repealed the law in the 40's or 50's.
As for Wisconsin, black suffrage was established only through a supreme court decision.
As for the rest of the tolerant North, whose history has been forgotten, after the Civil War, nineteen of 24 Northern states did not allow blacks to vote. Nowhere could they serve on juries before 1860. They could not give testimony in 10 states, and were prevented from assembling in two. Several western states had prohibited free blacks from entering the state. Blacks who entered Illinois and stayed more than 10 days were guilty of "high misdemeanor." Even those that didn't, debated it and had discriminatory ordinances on the local level.
It's time to give Mississippi a chance and stop being the person you think you are rallying against.
Once again I'd like to point out that it aint just LAWS that determine all this. People tend to think of laws as the expression of the white man in charge (especially in the south) and I'm led to believe some in this discussion may feel that way still.
You say "the real test" is black men with white women, well I personally know at least two couples like that, one enjoying pretty good stature in the community. Sadly (I say sadly because, myself being a bit racist, I tend to favor darker women) I know of VERY few instances down here of black women with white men. This was fairly common in LA, but down here there's a bit of a cultural taboo about black women with white men... and it seems to be largely coming from other black women, not the law and not some imaginary oppressive white regime. Thanks to the high penetration of feminist ideals into the white culture (and the negative effects that has had on boys and men), many black women also seem to think of white dudes as pansies.
We got healing to do all around. The problem is, some folks from ALL sides of the conflict are stuck in the 1960's. Lots of good came from the 1960s, but much harm also. Frakkin' hippies!
I'm not asking people to date other races for the sake of doing so. I'm just making observations. When I notice common behavior in one community, usually I conclude it's acceptable. It's more common to see gay relationships in San Francisco. It's more common to see interracial relationships in Wisconsin. Since it's more common, I figure it's more acceptable. So I think that's pretty relevant.
I see interracial couples here, I also see gay couples, and nobody I know or have heard about here mistreats them for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by windhoek7
You gave me examples of white men in relationships with black females (Of course this has always been going on in the south, whether or not the females were forced into the relationship or not) But what about black males with white females? That's the real test.
Your anecdotes are touching, but anecdotes don't always tell the whole picture. Again, I'm not downing Mississippi. It has some wonderful people whom have come a long ways in terms of race relations. But there is still progress to be made, and "denying problems" doesn't lead to solutions.
I see black guys with white girls here, as well as hispanic guys with white girls. I have a very good black friend who is married to a white woman. Do you really think it doesn't exist here?
I live here and I just don't see the problems you think I am denying. Sure, racism exists in Mississippi, but not so much more than other states that would justify all the negative connotations associated with it.
Wisconsin doesn't have to learn ANYTHING from Mississippi because you must have your head buried in the sand if you think mixed relationships are just as acceptable in Mississippi as here in Wisconsin or almost anywhere in the Upper Midwest. Have you ever stepped foot in Madison? A huge number of white girls are with someone of another race (usually black or hispanic). I didn't see this in MS or even Arkansas where I spent a lot of time. I know Milwaukee has their segregation problems, but dating across racial lines is a LOT more acceptable there than in MS. And what do you mean "rightfully so" most parents would be upset if their white daughter brought home a black boyfriend. If this has nothing to do with bigotry or racism on behalf of the parents, then it has to do with what?
Again, to repeat myself, I don't believe mixed relationships are widely accepted anywhere, MS or WI, and if you think they are, perhaps your head is buried in the sand. You will see more of it in Madison, which of course, you will see more of everything in that liberal hell hole.
Milwaukee and WI as a whole are known for being some of the most segregated areas around. It is documented that blacks fair far worse here in terms of getting mortgages, jobs, or moving up the corporate ladder.
I don't see racism in MS anywhere near the extend of WI. In MS, everyone lives next to one another, not like Milwaukee with its almost exclusive lilly white suburbs. MS has more black elected officials than any other state...not bad for such a segregated society. Furthermore, not only could WI take a lesson from MS on race relations, but it may want to consider how MS garners high paying jobs, like two new auto plants in just a few years. WI could not get an industry like that to move in to save its soul, they can't even keep the ones they have.
Finally, I do not believe in mixing the races for dating/marrying, ie: black and white. PERIOD. There are plenty of people who feel this way, not just in MS or WI, and it doesn't make us bigots or racist. I want to be friendly with my boss...but never friends.
Actually, that's pretty much the epitomy of racism. When you seek to deny people a benefit or right solely due to their race, that is the very definition of racism. When you say "no race mixing" then you are, by definition, seeking to deny rights and privileges to people based solely on their race - in this case, due to their differences in skin color.
It's called anti-miscegenation and most of us even in the very backward Mississippi got past that decades ago. Frankly, I have more friends here in mixed race marriages than in so called "traditional" relationships.
Mixed race kids are almost always gorgeous. Perhaps this is why some folks have a problem with it? Makes it harder for their inbred slack jawed kids to compete...
Did you realize some towns in Georgia have seperate white/black proms? Did you also realize Alabama has segregated Mardi Gras celebrations?
If you want to try painting the people of Mississippi as racist and intolerant because the anti-miscegenation law was only repealed or overturned in the 1960's, then do the same for Arizona, Indiana, Maryland, Utah, Wyoming, Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia. The last 15 listed were forced to do so by the federal government, and Maryland only repealed it after the beginning of the Loving v. Virginia case in 1967.
Take this in as well. California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon, and South Dakota only repealed the law in the 40's or 50's.
As for Wisconsin, black suffrage was established only through a supreme court decision.
As for the rest of the tolerant North, whose history has been forgotten, after the Civil War, nineteen of 24 Northern states did not allow blacks to vote. Nowhere could they serve on juries before 1860. They could not give testimony in 10 states, and were prevented from assembling in two. Several western states had prohibited free blacks from entering the state. Blacks who entered Illinois and stayed more than 10 days were guilty of "high misdemeanor." Even those that didn't, debated it and had discriminatory ordinances on the local level.
It's time to give Mississippi a chance and stop being the person you think you are rallying against.
Thank you so much for this post. It's great to see someone on here that is learned enough to give such a thoughtful, insightful and historically correct response. One rep point for you!
There are a lot of white people who are prejudiced against blacks as a group, but who genuinely like (even love) their black friends as individuals. This is the way it has always been in the south and is the reason that the races have been able to get along with each other as individuals, but also why there has not been more progress with the race issue on a group basis.
Thank you so much for this post. It's great to see someone on here that is learned enough to give such a thoughtful, insightful and historically correct response. One rep point for you!
It was an excellent post and I agree that Ms. deserves a break. I've heard good things about Ms. like the nice scenery, friendly people, etc, but I've rarely read good things and that's unfortunate.
The only problem with the statement about the racist North is the fact that many northern states were only territories in 1860 or 1865 for that matter. Many weren't even states yet so there were no discriminatory laws on the books.
Did you realize some towns in Georgia have seperate white/black proms? Did you also realize Alabama has segregated Mardi Gras celebrations?
If you want to try painting the people of Mississippi as racist and intolerant because the anti-miscegenation law was only repealed or overturned in the 1960's, then do the same for Arizona, Indiana, Maryland, Utah, Wyoming, Alabama, Arkansas, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and West Virginia. The last 15 listed were forced to do so by the federal government, and Maryland only repealed it after the beginning of the Loving v. Virginia case in 1967.
Take this in as well. California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, North Dakota, Oregon, and South Dakota only repealed the law in the 40's or 50's.
As for Wisconsin, black suffrage was established only through a supreme court decision.
As for the rest of the tolerant North, whose history has been forgotten, after the Civil War, nineteen of 24 Northern states did not allow blacks to vote. Nowhere could they serve on juries before 1860. They could not give testimony in 10 states, and were prevented from assembling in two. Several western states had prohibited free blacks from entering the state. Blacks who entered Illinois and stayed more than 10 days were guilty of "high misdemeanor." Even those that didn't, debated it and had discriminatory ordinances on the local level.
It's time to give Mississippi a chance and stop being the person you think you are rallying against.
I know about the segregated proms in Georgia, but what's that got to do with anything? So because Georgia has towns that have segregated HS proms validates the reason why Mississippi should have them? That just proves that Georgia has a long way to go also. The mere fact a state still has towns where citizens hold segregated HS proms kind of gives pause, and most folks would reason that there might be something a little bit taboo against different races of opposite sexes meeting in a social function, and having a relationship.
......and you think just because Mississippi was in the company of 15 other states that had their anti-miscegenation laws repealed, should justify why MS took so long to have their law repealed? I think Mississippi is better than that, but you feel the need to cite the lowest common denominator. And I never said there hasn't been racism or intolerance up North (you think I said that) so giving a history of racial conflict in the north means nothing to me. I lived 9 months in AR and spent time in MS. Both places are beautiful, but from my observations, black & white couples were far and few between. They may exist, but not at the same rate as here in Wisconsin. Some things are just more socially acceptable up here...and mixed relationships is one of them.
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