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Old 11-28-2010, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,819 posts, read 13,425,721 times
Reputation: 3338

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Quote:
Originally Posted by strudel42 View Post
Google, beautiful Google. How I love thee.

Sewer:
Missoula, MT - Official Website - Sewer Services

Water (this is from April but gives a ballpark on averages):

Mountain Water Co. wants to raise Missoula rates
Wow, I'm shocked at MT water rates -- when I lived in Bozeman, it was maybe 10% as much even allowing for inflation (I think I paid about $2/month for both, total, back in 1975). Now it works out to around half a cent per gallon. That's as much as it costs me to pump from my deep well (400 feet) with a 10hp pump and booster, at SoCalEdison's ridiculous "Business" electric rate they charge for 3-phase well pumps. And that's about double what the little dinky desert water companies charge per gallon, and about 4x what they pay in Los Angeles where the water is mostly imported from out of state. WTF is going on with MT's city water rates??

Same thing with city sewer rates -- WTF??!

Tho if you pump your septic every couple years (like they tell us to do and no one does) it winds up being about the same net cost.

I was recently looking at the city water/sewer rates for some small city in North Dakota, and as I recall it was about 1/3rd as much as the stated average MT rate.

How did MT's water/sewer rates get so high by comparison to places that oughta have higher rates than MT, like CA??
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:04 PM
 
Location: State of General Disarray
836 posts, read 1,344,243 times
Reputation: 1383
I thought that seemed like a lot. I haven't paid a water bill in probably ten years, having lived for a while with a well and then in rentals, but I recall it being around $15/month when I did have one. That was a public utility, though, and not in MT.

I wonder if the water prices could be a result of MT's utilities deregulation? It's usually talked about in reference to power, but water is a utility, and Mountain Water in MSO is a private company.

(Googles stuff. A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou, Google) Well, no, perhaps not. According to this, Mountain Water (once operated by Montana Power) was sold in 1979 to Park Water Co. out of California. So I have no idea.
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Old 11-28-2010, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,819 posts, read 13,425,721 times
Reputation: 3338
Oh, a victim of the public utilities "deregulation" and doubtless the sale was an early part of MT Power's exit strategy scam as well. All is explained.... Every utility I can think of has had skyrocketing rates ever since being "deregulated".

Utilities need to be locally owned and operated, or you get this sort of screw job.

Side note: I'd guess this goes right along with areas that are starting to require that all residents use the "city" (private corporation) water and sewer services.... they wouldn't be near as profitable if people could opt out.
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Old 11-28-2010, 07:34 PM
 
Location: State of General Disarray
836 posts, read 1,344,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Oh, a victim of the public utilities "deregulation" and doubtless the sale was an early part of MT Power's exit strategy scam as well.
Good call... I hadn't looked at it that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
All is explained.... Every utility I can think of has had skyrocketing rates ever since being "deregulated".

Utilities need to be locally owned and operated, or you get this sort of screw job.
But what happened to the free-market-competition, consumer-choice, everybody-wins scenario that was supposed to accompany deregulation? Perhaps that was just a tad untruthful.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:22 PM
 
69 posts, read 208,808 times
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Strudel 42,

Thanks for great information. Fortunately I am retired and can choose
where I want to live. Looking to leave the Bitteroot, but do not want to drive my cost of living up. I have lots of time to look, Houses are not exactly selling like hotdogs at Cosco right now.
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Old 11-28-2010, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,819 posts, read 13,425,721 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by strudel42 View Post
But what happened to the free-market-competition, consumer-choice, everybody-wins scenario that was supposed to accompany deregulation? Perhaps that was just a tad untruthful.
Noticed that little minor discrepancy between theory and reality, eh?

As some economists point out, sometimes a monopoly IS the most cost-effective and efficient way to run something -- notably public utilities. Choice isn't always a positive thing, and enforced choice almost never is. (We're going to give you a disease, like it or not. Would you prefer ebola or HIV?)
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:21 PM
 
Location: State of General Disarray
836 posts, read 1,344,243 times
Reputation: 1383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arleigh-20 View Post
Strudel 42,

Thanks for great information. Fortunately I am retired and can choose
where I want to live. Looking to leave the Bitteroot, but do not want to drive my cost of living up. I have lots of time to look, Houses are not exactly selling like hotdogs at Cosco right now.
No problem. Good luck finding a place; IMO our housing market is just bottoming out.

Rez... Your comment on choice made me think of this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNjcuZ-LiSY
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,819 posts, read 13,425,721 times
Reputation: 3338
Quote:
Originally Posted by strudel42 View Post
Rez... Your comment on choice made me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNjcuZ-LiSY
"....and we're all out of cake!!"

Now if only the right place for me in MT would hit the bottom of the housing market... believe it or not there are houses sitting empty near me (at least two that I know of) that are listed for $75k and $85k. In SoCal no less!!
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Old 11-29-2010, 04:49 PM
 
Location: State of General Disarray
836 posts, read 1,344,243 times
Reputation: 1383
I should have said, I think it's just beginning to bottom out. Rents have definitely stabilized, which I think is a good sign, and houses in my neighborhood that would have been marketed at $225k a couple years ago are now asking $160-175k. Of course there are still holdouts in MSO who think they can get $300k and up but I don't think that's happening.

I'm a little mystified as to why the crash hasn't affected us to the extent of other areas. Perhaps the relatively high percentage of rentals versus owner-occupied homes here has sheltered the market somewhat?
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