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Old 01-01-2012, 01:06 AM
 
42 posts, read 49,173 times
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I spent more time to make a more accurate map of our state and it's culture. Here is the updated map.

As you can see for Dixie I put the Southern part of the Ozarks and SE MO in it. Like I said before in the Ozarks within about 50 miles of the AR border and not too far north of US 60 and below IMO I would consider Dixie which includes Springfield. I put the Dixie line just south of Joplin city limits though because that area leans southern, it also is in a distinct area of KS, OK, AR. Of course in SE MO I put the Dixie line on the southern part of Capes city limits and included far SW Cape Girardeau county in it. THB Gunner can comment about SW cape county. Otherwise as StLouisain stated about US 50 the begining of the transition line of Midwest to Southern, I agree mostly, but I put it a tad south of the line except in Western MO around Sedalia because there are still some southern traces around those areas going back to it's roots.

I put the little hump of Dixie up to Cherokee Pass in Madison County. I've never been to Cherokee Pass but KSHE said at Cherokee pass it becomes southern pretty quickly there and she's smart so I'll take her word on it.

As for St. Gen and Perry County as you can see I also labled that 100 percent Midwestern.

I circled St. Louis because it's distinct from the rest of the areas. It's Midwestern, BUT I can tell you it has also an kinda East Coast feel to it like Baltimore, and also some areas feel like Cincy. St. Louis county feels midwestern though but the city is similar to Baltimore, and Cincy in ways.

The rest of the areas though as you can see are also Midwestern, but I put slight traces of southernish in it. I mean SLIGHT. More in western MO because some of those places still have some slight southern traces in the smaller towns in the little dixie areas of the western half of MO. Also some will say most Franklin County, and parts of southern, rural JEfferson county have slight traces of southernish in them, and I live in this area of the state, but they are not nearly enough to classify it the transition zone as they're probably still over 90 percent Midwestern.

So overall yes present day Missouri is overall a Midwestern, border state. I've say 50 percent midwestern, 25 percent a transition zone of both Midwest and southernish, and only the last 25 percent is truely the SOUTH and Dixie. So certainly out of the Census map of the states, Missouri is the most southerness and warmest of all the census Midwestern states. Followed by Indiana, IL, and Ohio.

The areas between US 50 in yellow to the orange I would consider to be similar to far southern IL, or Southern parts of Indiana. The more south you go the more south it feels.

In the Ozarks little ways north of US 60, about within 50 miles of the AR border is the south which includes springfield, or in most places the last two counties before Arkansas. Of course in South east MO I used the Cape Girardeau rule of thumb. Lebanon, MO also has a strong southern feeling, but too for north to justify it being in Dixie.

Going by the official border states and their southerness present day

1. Kentucky which is a no brainer, and is southern to this day in most places.

2. Missouri and West Virginia. Reason I say that is because W Virginia seems to have northern culture in the far northern part that extends way up into Ohio and PA, and the Appalachian culture which dominates a lot of the state while Missouri has Southeast Missouri like Kennett, Sikeston, Malden, New Madrid, Hayti, Caruthersville which are the Delta, and are true southern and where Cotton is King and are truely Southernern in everything just like Arkansas, Mississippi delta.

3. Maryland. While most of the state is more part of the liberal northeast, if still has parts of the Eastern Shore which are still Southern.

4. Delaware. Well really nothing southern ever about this, but still was called a border state.

As for Midwestern states as a overall I would say Indiana is about 85-90 percent Midwestern, while IL is about 90 percent Midwestern, Ohio about 95 percent Midwestern, and Missouri which is probably about close to 70 percent Midwest leaning.

So certainly I would say parts of Missouri geographically should not be part of the Midwest like places under the orange line. Like the Census maps only include states, and the bootheel is not geographicall Midwestern at all in climate. Same as Joplin, Neosho, Carthage. Just look at their average highs are same as Nashville TN in the winter basically.

Same can be said for places like OK. The far Western Panhandle by CO is not southern.

Hope this map helps.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,513,557 times
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I think including Sedalia and Warrensburg is extending it a bit too far to the north. Just keep it a straight line from south of jeff city to roughly where you end the line at KS. Regardless, pretty decent map of this majority Midwestern state with southern influences. West Virginia is an overall Southern state. South of Clarksburgh, 2/3 of the state leans more to the south.

If Indiana is 85-90% Midwestern...Missouri, by the definitions of this map, is 75% Midwestern, 25% southern.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:06 PM
 
42 posts, read 49,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I think including Sedalia and Warrensburg is extending it a bit too far to the north. Just keep it a straight line from south of jeff city to roughly where you end the line at KS. Regardless, pretty decent map of this majority Midwestern state with southern influences. West Virginia is an overall Southern state. South of Clarksburgh, 2/3 of the state leans more to the south.

If Indiana is 85-90% Midwestern...Missouri, by the definitions of this map, is 75% Midwestern, 25% southern.
I included Sedalia because from what I've heard on these forums there are some traces left. In general western MO near the Mo rivers for some reason still has a little taste of it left.

While West Virginia is southern in areas, it doesn't have the southerness like the Missouri Bootheel has. I don't think you will find anywhere in West Virginia with that. W Virginia is appalachian, and upper south.

Doesn't mean that 75 percent of MO midwestern, aas well as Indiana's 85 percent midwestern doesn't have any southern taste at all in it.

I don't think the map should be a straight line, but it could take ages to go into detail of each and every little area.

It's strange how the Southern half of Missouri has retained its southerness while the northern half has lost most of it and is midwestern.

Heck Maybe the Census should classify Oklahoma, and Missouri as their own region since there is such a diverse mix in states such as those.
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,513,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMissourian View Post
I included Sedalia because from what I've heard on these forums there are some traces left. In general western MO near the Mo rivers for some reason still has a little taste of it left.

While West Virginia is southern in areas, it doesn't have the southerness like the Missouri Bootheel has. I don't think you will find anywhere in West Virginia with that. W Virginia is appalachian, and upper south.

Doesn't mean that 75 percent of MO midwestern, aas well as Indiana's 85 percent midwestern doesn't have any southern taste at all in it.

I don't think the map should be a straight line, but it could take ages to go into detail of each and every little area.

It's strange how the Southern half of Missouri has retained its southerness while the northern half has lost most of it and is midwestern.

Heck Maybe the Census should classify Oklahoma, and Missouri as their own region since there is such a diverse mix in states such as those.
Regardless of how you classify them, this map shows Missouri to be classifiable Midwestern. 50% of it is solidly Midwestern, 25% is mix of Midwestern and southern, like southern illinois and southern indiana, and 25% is solidly southern. Unless you can establish a 50-50 borderline case, it's impossible to establish any other argument. So I'll revise it to be more accurate about the transition zone...62.5% Midwestern, 37.5% Southern. Factoring in the fact that the majority of the state's population resides in the area you classify as Midwestern, that likely tips the scales toward the Midwest even further. And only the southernmost quarter has truly retained its southerness. Oklahoma is a Southern state....it is of the same demographics and culture as Texas. It is dominated by southern speech patterns, its climate is more southern, and it also was one of the cotton states. Religiously, all of it, including in the cities, is more southern as well. How much more southern can it get. The only thing it lacks is not being a state in the Civil War, and even then, the indians living it fought for the Confederacy.
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Franklin, Tennessee
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rural southern missouri (just outside springfield) is 110% southern. there is NOTHING midwestern about rural communities in southern missouri
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 33,558,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbythegraceofgod View Post
rural southern missouri (just outside springfield) is 110% southern. there is NOTHING midwestern about rural communities in southern missouri
And your definition of southern MO would be, what, exactly?
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:38 AM
 
8 posts, read 21,235 times
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I put the little hump of Dixie up to Cherokee Pass in Madison County.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,417 posts, read 33,558,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances6 View Post
I put the little hump of Dixie up to Cherokee Pass in Madison County.
Dixie doesnt live there, ya gotta go a bit south, sweetie.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,513,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbythegraceofgod View Post
rural southern missouri (just outside springfield) is 110% southern. there is NOTHING midwestern about rural communities in southern missouri
Have to disagree. Even Monett, Missouri has Midwestern elements to it. SWMO is a hybrid of many different regions...western south, western Midwest,southern Midwest, and upper south.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:22 PM
 
6 posts, read 9,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Have to disagree. Even Monett, Missouri has Midwestern elements to it. SWMO is a hybrid of many different regions...western south, western Midwest,southern Midwest, and upper south.
I will agree! starting at springfield on westward is unique. I would never lump Springfield as a northern city, and would pick southern over northern though. It's a mix of Ozark South, midwest, western south, southwest. The area of far SW MO, NE OK, NW AR is different than the surrounding regions.

Also SW MO is VERY conservative and bible belt.

One thing I will say about the Ozarks, and I mean the true southern Ozarks I mean places like near highway 60 and south and the Arkansas Ozarks as it is southern, but I'd call it Ozark Southern. I mean places like Moutain Home, Bull Shoals, Branson, Table Rock, Harrison, Eureka Springs are all southern, but it's nothing like Georgia, AL, MS, TN, Southeast MO or the mid south regions of Arkansas. It's southern but it just doesn't exhibit as strong of a Dixie flair lets put it that way. Again it's Dixie, but it doesn't give off as strong of a vibe. Maybe sorta like the TN mountains. Doesn't mean it's not the south, but just isn't as in your face Like Alabama or Mississippi.
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