Where in Missouri does the South begin? (Kansas City, St. Louis: estate, areas)

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by Versatile

I have lived here in KCMO for 60 years and i think it can be a blend of both.

what you think is not what is. I dont care if youve lived there for 1000 years. Your opinion is not supported by demographics, linguistics, etc. Kansas city is thoroughly midwestern. Transplants from arkansas are again just that. You are in the minority. in one man i know has lived 72 years in kc. He would strongly disagree with your idea of kc being partially south. Having been all over the south myself, i can tell you that kc is more like des moines and omaha than okc and dallas. If you dont agree, fine. think what u want.

[GunnerTHB]

With the 8th District special election coming up, I have noticed that the Bootheel definitely still has the old conservative Democrat mindset, which is usually a southern trait. An article ran in the Southeast Missourian today about who the Democrats may select to run as their candidate, and many of the comments have been positive about one of the potential nominee's, who is a pro-gun, pro-life Democrat from East Prairie.

[imbored198824]

It was entertaining to drop by the Iowa forum. People there were describing the Southern Iowa counties that border Missouri as having a "light southern accent"...another person said those counties have a "missouri twang". Everything is relative on who you are talking to I guess. I find that quite humorous because to me those people probably sound like they are from minnesota.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

It was entertaining to drop by the Iowa forum. People there were describing the Southern Iowa counties that border Missouri as having a "light southern accent"...another person said those counties have a "missouri twang". Everything is relative on who you are talking to I guess. I find that quite humorous because to me those people probably sound like they are from minnesota.

its not all relative if ur a professional linguist. That is not a southern accent they are hearing but a south midland accent found exclusively across the lower midwest. Looking up dialect maps will confirm this. People from the lower midwest sound slightly southern. People from the upper midwest sound slightly canadian.

[imbored198824]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

its not all relative if ur a professional linguist. That is not a southern accent they are hearing but a south midland accent found exclusively across the lower midwest. Looking up dialect maps will confirm this. People from the lower midwest sound slightly southern. People from the upper midwest sound slightly canadian.

The South Midland dialect region follows the Ohio River in a generally southwesterly direction, moving across from Kentucky, Southern Indiana, and Southern Illinois to southern Missouri, Arkansas, southern Kansas, and Oklahoma, west of the Mississippi river....not Iowa. or even northern Missouri for that matter.

[brushrunner]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Not just south. As I'm now discovering having lived out in Central Missouri for a month, that midwest-south hybrid culture can actually extend along the U.S. 50 corridor in some places, particularly in mid-Missouri. However, the area I would certainly say as a whole is still more Midwestern, but historically, prior to the Civil War, much of this area could've been classified as southern. That was then, however, and this is now. For the most part along U.S. 50 is the Midwest, but the transition zone generally starts either right on or south of that highway.

Well if a person wanted to go all the way back to the Civil War the line would be at the Missouri River,my Ancestors and present Family live in Boonville area,had many Slaves and fought and died for the South.

But even now days can be clanish and consider theirselves Southern.

brushrunner

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by brushrunner

Well if a person wanted to go all the way back to the Civil War the line would be at the Missouri River,my Ancestors and present Family live in Boonville area,had many Slaves and fought and died for the South.

But even now days can be clanish and consider theirselves Southern.

brushrunner

I wouldn't doubt that a few residents might identify that way due to how their families were during the Civil War. Technically one could've said north of the Missouri River too back in those days. My impression of the area today is that Southern influences still remain, but that it is now a part of the Lower Midwest. The actual South begins 100 miles further south.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by imbored198824

The South Midland dialect region follows the Ohio River in a generally southwesterly direction, moving across from Kentucky, Southern Indiana, and Southern Illinois to southern Missouri, Arkansas, southern Kansas, and Oklahoma, west of the Mississippi river....not Iowa. or even northern Missouri for that matter.

Here is what I was referring to. This is among the most widely accepted linguistic studies in the United States. It was done by the University of Pennsylvania in 1997. While it may be dated, IMO it means that the lines for this dialect have actually gone down. The reason is that accents are fading out among younger generations, so 16 years ago, the native accents of these areas would be even more likely to be heard. Virtually all American dialect maps you will find parallel roughly this map.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...p/NatMap1.html

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by brushrunner

Well if a person wanted to go all the way back to the Civil War the line would be at the Missouri River,my Ancestors and present Family live in Boonville area,had many Slaves and fought and died for the South.

But even now days can be clanish and consider theirselves Southern.

brushrunner

Hell back in the civil war days that line would have been farther north than that. Missouri had some crazy immigration patterns.

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Here is what I was referring to. This is among the most widely accepted linguistic studies in the United States. It was done by the University of Pennsylvania in 1997. While it may be dated, IMO it means that the lines for this dialect have actually gone down. The reason is that accents are fading out among younger generations, so 16 years ago, the native accents of these areas would be even more likely to be heard. Virtually all American dialect maps you will find parallel roughly this map.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...p/NatMap1.html

I wish that map was done for rural areas too. That would take too much manpower and too many resources though I suppose.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

Hell back in the civil war days that line would have been farther north than that. Missouri had some crazy immigration patterns.


I wish that map was done for rural areas too. That would take too much manpower and too many resources though I suppose.

While I agree that nothing everything is perfect, other maps pretty much duplicate this map exactly to a T. And those may have included rural areas. I'm pretty of the opinion that in most cases, they got it right here.