What do people mean by "southern" and "Midwestern"? (Rolla: metro, areas)

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by Scanman91

I think Missouri lost most of it's southern culture after the Civil War. Most of the state isn't southern until you get around the Ozarks or so. Most people from the state identify as Midwestern so it makes sense to be it is Midwestern. For me from 1821-1865 it was Southern. 1865-present it is Northern, maybe a few years after the Civil War dueling Reconstruction it started acting more Northern.

Not all the state is "northern" 25 percent is Dixie, and the other 25 percent is still a mixed zone of both southern and Midwestern traits.

The state is also more conservative than states NY, NJ, etc. While overall it Is still more Midwestern I would not call it northern, but Midwestern.

When I think of northern I think of MN, MI, NY, MA states way up north.

[redbacchus]

Nice discussion. Keep it up

[linicx]

Originally Posted by tuckessee

The areas that are southern in culture are within the humid subtropical climate zone, have southern flora and fauna (cypress, tupelo, southern oaks, yellow pines, neotropical migratory waterfowl, alligator snapping turtles, etc.), southern accents, euphemisms, and demeanor (y'all, bless her heart, slow easy-going attitude, at the grocery you push a buggy), southern crops (cotton, rice, tobacco) and restaurants serve southern cuisine (fried meats and veggies, pulled pork, cornbread). The further north you travel in that state and as you switch climates these factors quickly dissipate and turn into Midwestern culture, with a blend in the middle. I can't speak for Midwest culture because I've never seen it. From what I understand German food is very popular, the people either have no accent or sound like Wisconsinians. Flat black dirt land with no trees

According to the US Census Bureau the Midwest is defined as 11 states beginning with Ohio extending as far north as the Canadian border, as far west as the Dakotas, and includes Missouri. OH, IN, IL, IA are primarily crop and livestock producing states with rich black soil, flat plains, tornadoes, floods and deep snow. But you'll also find heavily forested areas, rolling hills, cliffs, large rivers, hunting, fishing, trapping and boating, major sports, large parks, small farming communities sprinkled 10-20 miles apart. and very few towns with a population over 100,000. Farms of 1000 acres are not uncommon.

Farm kids grow up on beef, chicken, fish (trout, bass, crappie, bluegill, catfish), lamb, pork, turkey, and variety meats that are prepared in a many different ways: fried, baked, grilled, poached, boiled, or broiled. potatoes and gravy, veggies, cornbread, biscuits, rolls, dressing, cereal, pies, cakes, leftovers, coffee, tea, milk or water. No food was wasted. Scraps went to the dogs or the hogs. Who did what or when depended upon several things. Food on hand, the recipe, who worked and who was going to eat that meal.

Pork tenderloin is more popular than pulled pork. BBQ ribs are more popular than grits or red eye gravy. Spaghetti is served with a tomato based sauce/meat. "Spaghetti Red" is nor on any Italian menu, and sweet tea is uncommon. Steak and Rib Eye are still very popular. The bar and grill is as popular as the family restaurant, but it is generally much smaller and has better food. Regional pizza is generally perfered to national pizza chains mostly because it is made differently.

Depending upon the state, where you are in that state, and if you are attending an event, you may hear German, Southern, Irish, Yiddish, Norwegian, Swedish, Spanish, Asian, and perhaps Latin, Greek, French or Italian accents or dialects. National newscasters imitate Midwest speech. It is considered generic, because it lacks a specific intonation or phonation, I assure you the "tour" we took on a bus is not pronounced the same as cloth we "tore" up. Tour pronounced as tore is NY/DC speak. CNN reporters do that all the time, but the Bostonians who "pahk their cahs" know the difference. Most of the shows on the Food Network are Midwestern speech, whereas HGTV has many Canadian hosts. If you want to hear the genteel old south the Carolinas, Georgia and Mississippi sound a lot alike.

The backroads in Missouri doesn't look a lot different than the backroads of IL until you get much closer to Chicago. The Deere's gradually disappear as the traffic slowly increases 1000 fold. Anyone who wants to experience food from different countries and hear authentic language spoken in the home should spend a week in Chicago. I believe most every dialect heard in the world is in Chicago.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by linicx

According to the US Census Bureau the Midwest is defined as 11 states beginning with Ohio extending as far north as the Canadian border, as far west as the Dakotas, and includes Missouri. OH, IN, IL, IA are primarily crop and livestock producing states with rich black soil, flat plains, tornadoes, floods and deep snow. But you'll also find heavily forested areas, rolling hills, cliffs, large rivers, hunting, fishing, trapping and boating, major sports, large parks, small farming communities sprinkled 10-20 miles apart. and very few towns with a population over 100,000. Farms of 1000 acres are not uncommon.

Farm kids grow up on beef, chicken, fish (trout, bass, crappie, bluegill, catfish), lamb, pork, turkey, and variety meats that are prepared in a many different ways: fried, baked, grilled, poached, boiled, or broiled. potatoes and gravy, veggies, cornbread, biscuits, rolls, dressing, cereal, pies, cakes, leftovers, coffee, tea, milk or water. No food was wasted. Scraps went to the dogs or the hogs. Who did what or when depended upon several things. Food on hand, the recipe, who worked and who was going to eat that meal.

Pork tenderloin is more popular than pulled pork. BBQ ribs are more popular than grits or red eye gravy. Spaghetti is served with a tomato based sauce/meat. "Spaghetti Red" is nor on any Italian menu, and sweet tea is uncommon. Steak and Rib Eye are still very popular. The bar and grill is as popular as the family restaurant, but it is generally much smaller and has better food. Regional pizza is generally perfered to national pizza chains mostly because it is made differently.

Depending upon the state, where you are in that state, and if you are attending an event, you may hear German, Southern, Irish, Yiddish, Norwegian, Swedish, Spanish, Asian, and perhaps Latin, Greek, French or Italian accents or dialects. National newscasters imitate Midwest speech. It is considered generic, because it lacks a specific intonation or phonation, I assure you the "tour" we took on a bus is not pronounced the same as cloth we "tore" up. Tour pronounced as tore is NY/DC speak. CNN reporters do that all the time, but the Bostonians who "pahk their cahs" know the difference. Most of the shows on the Food Network are Midwestern speech, whereas HGTV has many Canadian hosts. If you want to hear the genteel old south the Carolinas, Georgia and Mississippi sound a lot alike.

The backroads in Missouri doesn't look a lot different than the backroads of IL until you get much closer to Chicago. The Deere's gradually disappear as the traffic slowly increases 1000 fold. Anyone who wants to experience food from different countries and hear authentic language spoken in the home should spend a week in Chicago. I believe most every dialect heard in the world is in Chicago.

The census map is generally NOT a good reference to use. IS Delaware really a southern state LOL. And the back roads of MO do differ from many parts of IL! Except for southern IL and SE MO which are both flat. The Ozarks do NOT cover IL. Southern IL does NOT remind me of the southern half of Missouri except SE MO delta area and far southern IL in the MS Delta as they're both flat.

Culturally yes IL is similar to MO in some ways. South IL is a transition zone like parts of Southern MO are and other parts of IL are Midwestern like central and northern MO are. Topography wise IL and MO are a lot different in many parts as IL is a generally flat state, and half of MO 'Ozarks' is very hilly.

[PGC Native]

Originally Posted by MoSouthernMan

The census map is generally NOT a good reference to use. IS Delaware really a southern state LOL. And the back roads of MO do differ from many parts of IL! Except for southern IL and SE MO which are both flat. The Ozarks do NOT cover IL. Southern IL does NOT remind me of the southern half of Missouri except SE MO delta area and far southern IL in the MS Delta as they're both flat.

Culturally yes IL is similar to MO in some ways. South IL is a transition zone like parts of Southern MO are and other parts of IL are Midwestern like central and northern MO are. Topography wise IL and MO are a lot different in many parts as IL is a generally flat state, and half of MO 'Ozarks' is very hilly.

Actually, the Ozarks do cover part of SW Illinois. Garden of the Gods in Shawnee National Forest is in the Ozark Mountains.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by PGC Native

Actually, the Ozarks do cover part of SW Illinois. Garden of the Gods in Shawnee National Forest is in the Ozark Mountains.

Generally it is not part of the Ozarks even though a few do call it part of it.

[STLviaMSP]

"I would think that a real Southerner would definitely associate "SBC" with the real church of the South, which occurs in the afternoon, not the morning. Let's see if the northerners get this one..."

What does this mean? Google provides no answers. Nor do live humans.

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by PGC Native

Actually, the Ozarks do cover part of SW Illinois. Garden of the Gods in Shawnee National Forest is in the Ozark Mountains.

That area is referred to as the Illinois Ozarks, but it isn't the same range as what is in Missouri and Arkansas. The Ozarks do not run all the way to the Mississippi River. Southern Illinois has coal mines while the Missouri Ozarks have lead mining.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by GunnerTHB

That area is referred to as the Illinois Ozarks, but it isn't the same range as what is in Missouri and Arkansas. The Ozarks do not run all the way to the Mississippi River. Southern Illinois has coal mines while the Missouri Ozarks have lead mining.

Agree. Heck Shawnee is closer to Evansville IN than it is the Missouri Ozarks. The edge of the Ozarks is almost 100 miles away from Shawnee.

[PGC Native]

All I'm saying MoSouthernMan is there are parts of Illinois that are similar to the Missouri Ozarks culturally, topographically, same southern influences, Appalachian-like lifestyle, etc. Topography-wise the Shawnee Hills are a plateau much like the Ozarks, and the only part of Illinois that wasn't glaciated during the last ice age. The glaciers in MO stopped roughly north of the Missouri River, leaving the Ozarks south of there.