Great news! The Confederate battle flag is back up at Higginsville! (St. Louis: apartment, crime)

[imbored198824]

People are ignorant they fear what they don't see or know.

[phlinak]

Originally Posted by Dawn10am

I take a very "meh" approach to this whole subject. I understand that the Confederacy was treason and slavery and all of that, but I also think a lot of people try WAY too hard to force their modern "politically correct" values onto history and that just doesn't work. I also don't think that the Confederate flag is in any way, size, shape, or form analogous to Nazi swastikas. Sorry, I just don't.

Originally Posted by imbored198824

Yes and I am also very liberal when it comes to social issues. Let me tell you once again. I also know one black student in Branson public schools who wears the flag on tshirts. Most people realize it's a sign of southern pride.

Originally Posted by MoSouthernMan

Yes, and the reason why is that because that was Deutschland's national flag for the time period that they fought under just like the Confederate soldiers. And no I'm not a Neonazi but if they died fighting for Germany then that's what should be flown.

It's just a darn flag. the flag isn't just going to climb off the flag pole and start killing people.

Ask any Jew, especially a Holocaust survivor, if the swastika is just a flag.

For many blacks, the Confederate flag represents to us, what the Nazi swastika represents to Jews, with all of the same symbolism, fear, sadness, and emotion.

Even though to you, it is only a flag or it represents pride, to many of us, it is a continuous reminder of a very ugly, fearful, and not-so-distant past (that still exists in a few places).

[STLviaMSP]

^ The flag is the symbol of a group of traitors that turned against their country in the name of slavery - one of the worst things you can do to another person. Nothing more, nothing less, despite the story revisionists try to sell. It deserves to be flown nowhere, the cemeteries deserve to be plowed into the earth. This has nothing to do with political correctness. We don't commemorate and honor Al Qaeda dead either.

[STLviaMSP]

And once more, Real Americans don't fly confederate flags. Period.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by STLviaMSP

^ The flag is the symbol of a group of traitors that turned against their country in the name of slavery - one of the worst things you can do to another person. Nothing more, nothing less, despite the story revisionists try to sell. It deserves to be flown nowhere, the cemeteries deserve to be plowed into the earth. This has nothing to do with political correctness. We don't commemorate and honor Al Qaeda dead either.

Okay now you're going to far. You seriously can't compare AL Qaeda to the Confederates.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by phlinak

Should a Nazi "swastika" flag fly over the cemeteries of German military members who fought during World War II?

Consider this, should soldiers be buried under the flag under which they fought and ultimately gave their likes? It's a thorny question. I know I'll be buried under the American flag in a U.S. veterans cemetery. Wonder how others might feel about that. Those who didn't/don't want past wars may find it objectionable. My rejoinder is "sorry about that!"

[Scanman91]

I will never support the Confedeates, but this is for their veterans. If someone says they're traitors, then they're also saying the American's and the flag are a sign of being a traitor as well. The British saw us as traitors to the Crown, the colonist were British subjects so they were apart of it. So are you saying that American flags shoulden't be put up for the Patriots and instead put up a Union Jack flag? I don't see Missouri as a Confederate state because it never joined, it was pro union; but it did have soldiers from it so it's just a sign of respect for them.

[phlinak]

Originally Posted by Scanman91

I will never support the Confedeates, but this is for their veterans. If someone says they're traitors, then they're also saying the American's and the flag are a sign of being a traitor as well. The British saw us as traitors to the Crown, the colonist were British subjects so they were apart of it. So are you saying that American flags shoulden't be put up for the Patriots and instead put up a Union Jack flag? I don't see Missouri as a Confederate state because it never joined, it was pro union; but it did have soldiers from it so it's just a sign of respect for them.

I disagree. The British did not see us as traitors, at least at first. King George viewed us as what we were, British subjects. Remember our Founding Fathers were not seeking to break away from the British Empire but they were seeking redress of their legitimate complaints of being overly and unfairly taxed. It was the heavy-handed and violent response by the Redcoats (the shot heard 'round the world) that pushed the colonists into an inevitable revolution.

Conversely, the Civil War was started by the Confederate decision to unprovokedly attack Fort Sumter, an obvious and purposeful act of war.

Traitors have neither earned nor deserve any respect.

[MoSouthernMan]

Originally Posted by Scanman91

I will never support the Confedeates, but this is for their veterans. If someone says they're traitors, then they're also saying the American's and the flag are a sign of being a traitor as well. The British saw us as traitors to the Crown, the colonist were British subjects so they were apart of it. So are you saying that American flags shoulden't be put up for the Patriots and instead put up a Union Jack flag? I don't see Missouri as a Confederate state because it never joined, it was pro union; but it did have soldiers from it so it's just a sign of respect for them.

Well Confederate congress did admit them as state number 12. Even though the disputed Neosho convention might not be valid they were still called a state by the confederates.

And Missouri sent 50,000 to 60,000 to fight for the Confederacy not including the pro confederate Missouri State guard. So despite being a union state and sending 100k for the Union army, that's still a pretty sizeable amount supporting the south. Maryland didn't send as high of percentage to fight for the Confederacy and Kentucky also didn't send as many for the confederacy as it was a pro union state as well.

However DURING the civil war Missouri was much more pro confederate than Kentucky. Most of Missouri's lawmakers and US congressmen were pro confederate while most of Kentuckys politicans were pro union and their governor was more neutral even though he leaned southern while Claiborne Jackson was a fierce confederate supporter.

Kentucky was never really in danger of seceding.

However AFTER the civil war Missouri became more Midwestern and Kentucky became more southern, but DURING the civil war yes Missouri was overall a southern state.

Maryland at the start of the civil was was less southern than MO and their slave population was going down and their free black population was rising. Missouri was the opposite. Missouri was increasing it's number of slaves especially in the Little Dixie area and Southeast Missouri.

However in modern time I'm not arguing that Missouri is more of a lower Midwestern state overall. It is really the only Midwestern state that has parts of its state located in the south though both geographically and culturally. IN and IL has some small portions that might be nearly fully southern like Metropolis and Cairo but those areas small. The southern quarter of MO is southern and you have the transition zone covering the rest of southern MO.

So yes modern times MO has changed but during the civil war and before the war Missouri was a southern state and that heritage shouldn't be ignored.

[todd00]

I think they should fly the American flag. It doesn't take away from the memorial sight any or their burial at the time, nor would it be disrespectful to the deceased. Phlinak, makes a good point about the meanings of flags to certain groups.

It's silly to hang on to these symbols that divided us. But then you have states like Alabama that left the old law on the books barring interracial marriage till November of 2000, despite the fact it had no validity for 30 odd years as the Supreme Court declared anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional. Some types relish in the past symbols of another time.