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Old 10-03-2014, 06:54 PM
 
Location: SW MO
662 posts, read 1,221,064 times
Reputation: 695

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
It would be even more expensive for each individual district to develop their own objective test.
Not necessarily, but it certainly would have been more expensive in the cumulative for the multiple districts to defend their tests from the inevitable lawsuits resulting from "protected class" teachers facing adverse action compared to letting one crony monopoly business absorb the first lawsuit before precedent is established.
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:42 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,166,544 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by attrapereves View Post
Missouri is already one of the lowest paying states for teachers. Add this into the mix and people will start going to Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Arkansas, or Kansas to teach. Iowa and Nebraska pay a lot better than Missouri.



IRRC Kansas has already done this.
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:45 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,166,544 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by nealrm View Post
The teachers and the teacher unions have been against anything that forces them to be held accountable for the job they do. The result has been bad teachers that keep teaching year after year. If the teachers want to submit a means of evaluation that includes something beyond showing up and includes some evaluation of their performance, let them put it forth. I have yet to hear anything beyond the typical union seniority garbage.

When talking with other parents, you keep hearing the same comments about the same teachers again and again. "Mrs [good teacher] did a great job with _____ he learned so much" or "_____ hated Mrs [bad teacher], she never explained the subject well" While one parent saying this about a teacher doesn't mean much, when it becomes a trend with several parents saying the same thing, then it is significant.

Any verfiable examples of this?

The result has been bad teachers that keep teaching year after year.
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Old 10-07-2014, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Peoria, AZ
975 posts, read 1,395,764 times
Reputation: 1076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
IRRC Kansas has already done this.
My home state of Arizona already does this as well. Arizona is constantly ranked near the bottom in terms of school quality and is having significant trouble finding qualified teachers.

What is happening here is that this is a way to slowly eliminate public education by people of a certain ideology by making it so bad that parents are forced to choose private or parochial options and eventually the state (or city or county) can say that the schools are performing so poorly (once most of the students leave) that they're better off just closing the schools altogether.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Midwest
978 posts, read 2,041,307 times
Reputation: 801
At my school, a few teachers are laid off every year because of performance. They are usually new teachers, so are under a provisional contract.

Teachers that start out great, but after years become lazy, are difficult to remove.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Paris
1,773 posts, read 2,657,536 times
Reputation: 1109
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
The problem with a system like that is that you have just severely penalized the 25 students who would have had that teacher; and odds are the parents have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to be in that district.

There is no better example of this than the Normandy district. Normandy was a stable average quality district before all the Wellston students were transferred into Normandy. Once that happened, it rapidly devolved into the worst district in the state. Similarly, once Normandy students were given open transfer, districts close to Normandy struggled immediately.
..and here lies one of the biggest problems in the US today... education is a business and luxury item...
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Old 10-10-2014, 12:08 PM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,166,544 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by attrapereves View Post
At my school, a few teachers are laid off every year because of performance. They are usually new teachers, so are under a provisional contract.

Teachers that start out great, but after years become lazy, are difficult to remove.



My brother taught 7th history for 26 years and his wife taught 3rd grade for 28 years.
No one ever said they were lazy.

Where do you get your information?
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Midwest
978 posts, read 2,041,307 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
My brother taught 7th history for 26 years and his wife taught 3rd grade for 28 years.
No one ever said they were lazy.

Where do you get your information?
I wasn't trying to imply that established teachers are lazy. I was meaning that once they "get in the door" and stay for 5 years (or whenever they are vested/no longer on a provisional contract), it's hard to get rid of them. Some districts are good about getting rid of them after the first year, some are not.

My district is pretty good about getting rid of the problems teachers, but I've observed some shocking things in classrooms in other areas.

I replaced a teacher who only taught for one year. He couldn't handle the students. The teacher before him was there for a long time, but became really easy with grading and her overall work of the students became more lax. She was also losing a connection with most of the students. I think she was getting too comfortable, so the school basically forced her to retire.
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Old 10-29-2014, 07:24 PM
 
367 posts, read 761,937 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
Any verfiable examples of this?

The result has been bad teachers that keep teaching year after year.
Write the board of any state school district. They have their own policies for removing teachers.

Evaluation systems must follow DESE guidelines and incorporate seven principles and be reported to the state.

In most districts a teacher with less than five years can be released without recourse.

The current models gives superintendents the autonomy to manage their districts accordingly.
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:05 AM
 
367 posts, read 761,937 times
Reputation: 322
Memo to Rex Sinquefield, stop spending millions to tear apart our state education system and start giving money to districts to enhance teacher/parent/student relations. Disband Grow Missouri and start Help Missouri.

Footnote: Constitutional Amendment 3 was defeated 76\24. Missouri has spoken so start listening.
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