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Missouri is part of the Midwest no matter how much you want to lump in it with the South, which you have repeatedly posted in this forum about over the years. New Hampshire, which your handle suggests you are from, is not part of the Midwest, and is nowhere close to being so. The Midwest does not border Maine.
Consistent snow cover in the winter is a feature of being in the north, not necessarily the Midwest. The southern part of Iowa does not have consistent snow cover from late December through March, and nobody doubts that Iowa isn't Midwestern. Northern Iowa near the MN border is part of the north and does have six months of consistent snow cover. There is 6 months of winter, snow melt, a mild summer, and then winter again. I know, I lived a whopping 10 miles from there for years. 6 months of snow on the ground is not "four seasons" as a season lasts three months, not six. I didn't live in the "snow belt," it didn't snow all that much as I was living hundreds of miles farther west of the Great Lakes, but the few inches at a time of dry snow we did get stuck around for 6 months.
Even in southern Missouri there are prolonged periods of time spent below freezing and the lowest temps seen during the winter are below zero most years. Springfield hit about 10 below the last couple of years. Compare that to the actual South where any temps below freezing are uncommon and considered emergencies when they do happen. If you want to see what "no winter" actually looks like, go to Florida and then tell me Missouri has no winter.
If you want to live in the north, then live in the north. Minnesota has half a year of winter and very mild summers, why not move there?
There are very few places in the US east of the Rockies that have SIX MONTHS of continuous snow cover of at least 1'' or greater. You are likely basing that on a very few select areas. I have lived in NH, WI, MO, IN, and KS. I currently live in IN. I am very familiar with different climate areas across the US and have a substantial background in meteorology. Missouri certainly does have more in common with areas of the South compared to the Midwest, but that is the reality of being at a relatively low latitude compared to the vast majority of the Midwest region. Yes, actual winters of varying length are infinitely superior to hot and humid summers as I prefer to be outside all the time during the summer season. Winter should have snow for winter sports, not dealing with rain, mud, and slop that is unproductive. The Lower Midwest and Upper South just can't deal with winter weather even though it happens every single year.
There are very few places in the US east of the Rockies that have SIX MONTHS of continuous snow cover of at least 1'' or greater. You are likely basing that on a very few select areas. I have lived in NH, WI, MO, IN, and KS. I currently live in IN. I am very familiar with different climate areas across the US and have a substantial background in meteorology. Missouri certainly does have more in common with areas of the South compared to the Midwest, but that is the reality of being at a relatively low latitude compared to the vast majority of the Midwest region. Yes, actual winters of varying length are infinitely superior to hot and humid summers as I prefer to be outside all the time during the summer season. Winter should have snow for winter sports, not dealing with rain, mud, and slop that is unproductive. The Lower Midwest and Upper South just can't deal with winter weather even though it happens every single year.
Missouri definitely has four seasons, especially in the parts of the state where the majority of the population resides.
Just because it doesn't get below zero some years in parts of Missouri doesn't mean that there isn't a winter, just like how a place like Duluth, MN having an average high of 76 in its warmest month doesn't mean that it doesn't have a summer.
MO is an interesting state where in a short distant drive you can experience different cultures. I remember once driving down here to FL and we had breakfast somewhere in Scott County and there was a few MO highway patrol troopers finishing breakfast and we asked for directions due to road construction and their accents had the typical Delta style accent you hear in Southeast MO, northern AR, west TN, northern MS. They could tell we were from St. Louis and not that area of the state when we talked to them lol. How you can go from St. Louis to Scott County both in the same state and short distance and it seems like two totally different planets.
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Missouri is a very unique state as it has bits and pieces of many different things.
- The northern couple tiers of counties that border NE, IA, northern KS, and IL are very much like those states. Flat, sparsely populated, and heavily agrarian. If you stopped in Rock Port, MO along I-29 and somebody told you that you were actually a half hour south of Fargo, ND and it was the summer, you'd believe them. You do hear a little bit of the Nebraska/Iowan soft-of-northern accent at times.
- St. Louis is an Eastern big city with all of the urban decay, corrupt city leaders, riots, gangs, drugs, and shootings of Chicago, Detroit, or Baltimore. Like Chicago, STL has a unique nasal accent. Ask an older St. Louisan to say what highway I-64 used to be and laugh because it sounds like what somebody becomes when they are too much Taco Bell the night before.
- Central Columbia surrounding the MU campus and a little bit north (about to Broadway) is a college town similar to any other big college town such as Madison, WI or possibly even Berkeley, CA. Although to Madison's credit, there is nothing similar to State Street Brats in Columbia but I'd put Flat Branch up to Spotted Cow or any of the better Wisconsin breweries.
- Central MO is pretty similar to much of the Ohio River Valley in topography and general sentiment, as well as being heavily settled by Germans. It's pretty similar to much of the Midwest in general, except it has more topography than some parts.
- The Ozarks region is very pretty and in my opinion is every bit as pretty as the foothill region of the Rockies (Dakota Badlands, etc.) in the western Great Plains although it isn't as mountainous. There are similar clear streams and wonderful windy roads to drive, although not as widely known as say, the Needles Highway. You start to hear some upper Southern drawl in some parts.
It's a wonderful state and I've visited nearly all of it over the decades.
Missouri has about as close to four seasons as you will see. Go much farther north and you get a lot of winter, the end of winter, a brief period where it gets a little above room temperature, and the beginning of the next winter. Go much farther south and you get summer, the end of summer, and then the beginning of the next summer.
The winters in MO are not bad. Even in northern MO snow typically doesn't stick around for more than a week or two. In southern MO, there are typically only a few inches of snow per year and they melt in a day or two. Ice is a bigger problem but even that melts quickly. In MO you often get a few days in January that hit the upper 50s or low 60s. A few hundred miles north of there and snow sticks around for 6 months and it gets to 30 or 40 below.
Greitens won because Nixon and the Democrats were not very popular at the time, as the country was in the Obama-caused Great Recession (aka the Lost Decade) and whichever Republican won the primary was going to win the governorship. (Ditto with the US Presidency, which is why the Democrat primary had only two challengers to Hillary but the Republicans had 16 candidates.) That a goofball Clintonesque womanizing former Democrat who won the Republican primary by shooting an AR in a campaign ad and running as a veteran won the election is proof of this.
One Term Bob appeared to have lost in large part because he grossly mismanaged (underfunded due to assuming the tech bubble would continue forever) the retirement programs of the public sector employees, leading to large cuts in school funding and massive increases in university tuition. Unionized public school teachers and university employees nicknamed him "Bob Withholden" due to this and a good number voted for Blunt.
Only the panhandle and bits of rural northern Florida is a southern US state. The rest is largely Central American with a population that speaks and votes they way they do where they originally hail from.
Greitens' flaw was that he ticked off pretty well everybody he came across in an effort to self-aggrandize himself. Trump has ticked off the Democrats and the media, as well as some RINOs but retains support from many conservatives. Greitens had pretty much everybody hating him. Thus Trump retains enough support to remain in office against the Muller witch-hunt, while Greitens was forced out of office. Conversely, Hillary stumbles around a free person because she had only insulted the half of the country than wasn't Democrat. If she took real potshots at Crazy Bernie, Mad Max(ine), the senile Nancy Pelosi, Chuckie Schumer, and that 20-something Central American socialist Ocasio-Cortez who repeatedly sticks her foot in her mouth when asked any real questions, she'd trade her pantsuit for an orange jumpsuit quicker than a Democrat files for welfare.
Except in central Missouri along the MO river there are still a number of pockets that have southern influences still like Lexington MO, Lafayette County, etc between I70 and highway 50. Even StLouisan who was spending a lot of time around the highway 50 region noticed this too in some areas still noticeable southern influences in the little dixie area.
Eric Greitens was a joke.
This is why Missouri needs CLOSED primaries to stop this bs. Other than on labor issues to appeal to the lawmakers, he disagreed with them on most other stuff.
I also don't think he was 110 percent pro gun as well. I could see him vetoing a pro gun bill just like the OK governor who is republican and too hated by most in the state vetoed their permit less carry bill this spring and it appears no support to override it.
Parson has also made some anti gun remarks lately as well.
Overall though I think Parson easily wins re-election. he doesn't have much baggage and the democraps seem to be getting along with him. Technically who could run for two more terms and be a 10 year governor.
I wouldn't compare the Ozarks to the rockies. Culturally it's more Appalachian like West Virginia, eastern TN and eastern KY that it is CO lol. It's either in the transition zone that starts about 10 miles north of highway 60 or is upper south like it is around highway 60 and below.
Granted places like Fayetteville Arkansas, and Springfield, etc have outside influences due to being larger growing cities but overall most of the Ozarks are either in a transition zone from highway 50 down to 10 miles north of highway 60 and Dixie from just north of highway 60 on south. Except in south central MO that southern line spikes up a bit to near Lebanon and just south of Rolla. This is backed up by most linguistics maps as well we have talked about on here.
Heck traveling southwest on I44 as soon as you leave St. Louis county you can see the gradual process of the transition zone as you go SW. It's gradual unlike in eastern MO when you're on i55 and hit Jackson MO it starts to become southern a lot quicker.
Even in St. Francois county you pickup a bit of the transition zone as well. It starts just south of St. Louis.
Except places like Ste. Gen county are midwestern. You can tell just driving over to St. Francois county that the two counties are very different. St. Francois county is more evangelical while Ste. Gen isn't. Of course it isn't southern but just an example how over a short distance things can be very different in Missouri.
Religion and politics Missouri resembles more of a southern state. In fact Missouri gun laws are a lot weaker than the other southern states except for Mississippi which are about the same. Abortion laws are some of the strictest in the country as well. Missouri is 25 percent transition zone like southern IL, and southern IN are, 25 percent dixie and 50 percent midwestern. Overall makes it a more midwestern state or if you really want to combine the transition zone southern influences in it then it's 60 percent midwestern and around 40 percent southern, still midwestern state. It's the only state in the census Midwest that has chunks of the state that are culturally and geographically southern though. Nowhere in southern IN, IL or OH is it like Branson, Sikeston or Poplar Bluff cities that are southern.
I will say since moving back to Floriduh that FL is a heck of a lot more liberal than Missouri is. Down here people are more open and tolerant towards gays and the gun laws are a lot more complex and stricter than Missouri that ranks 48th tied with Kansas for weak gun laws. The Republicans down here a number of them are a lot more moderate than Missouri's as well. up in MO the republicans are pretty far to the right. The anti gun bill that passed down here after Parkland had no shot when it was introduced in MO it got killed again this year by the Republicans.
This is why FL is so hotly contested. Obama won both times and Trump won by only a point down here. The democrats don't even bother pouring money into the presidential elections in MO anymore.
Why do you think guns are so popular in Missouri? In St. Louis county and northern Jefferson County new gun ranges and gun shops have been popping up all over the last 6 years and they're always packed too. I was a member of stl sharpshooter in Afton and on the weekends you can't even find a parking spot there the place is slammed. Even weekdays it was packed at times. Btw Sharpshooter is an excellent range. Far superior compared to anything we got down here. Probably the best range in the state of MO possibly.
Missouri definitely has four seasons, especially in the parts of the state where the majority of the population resides.
Just because it doesn't get below zero some years in parts of Missouri doesn't mean that there isn't a winter, just like how a place like Duluth, MN having an average high of 76 in its warmest month doesn't mean that it doesn't have a summer.
True. Just like people think of Florida as this hot place year round when it simply isn't.
The Pan Handel gets pretty darn cold in the winter away from the Gulf. In the Pan Handel you get days where it can get down into the lower teens for lows and highs of only around low 30s and you get fall colors too when it gets colder. Pan Handel gets a lot of days where highs are only in the 40s.
Besides snow, at night in the Pan Handel it's not much warmer than the Missouri Bootheel many times.
I personally wouldn't live there. If I have to live in far northwest FL I'd rather just live in Missouri again because it gets cold in the winter up there too just not the snow or ice storms Missouri gets.
Go to Crestview Florida and you won't see a lot of palm trees in far northwest FL.
The Florida people think about being tropical like and warm doesn't exist until you hit Orlando.
I live in Punta Gorda and even going down to Naples it feels a lot more tropical and humid down there and looks it too.
The FL people think about exist in South FL. This is also why northern FL has their "season" in the summer months and the winter months is their slow season. Down here the winter is our busy season with snowbirds and summer is our slow time.
Even down here in the winter you still need a jacket in the morning and the water is still too cool to swim a lot of times. Go to the Pan Handel and you can't enjoy the beach in the middle of Jan when the water temp is 53 degrees after a cold front and the high is in the upper 40s. Even on a warm day near 80 degrees in the Pan Handel in Jan the water is still too cold to swim in unless you have a west suit or want to get hypothermia.
There are very few places in the US east of the Rockies that have SIX MONTHS of continuous snow cover of at least 1'' or greater. You are likely basing that on a very few select areas. I have lived in NH, WI, MO, IN, and KS. I currently live in IN. I am very familiar with different climate areas across the US and have a substantial background in meteorology. Missouri certainly does have more in common with areas of the South compared to the Midwest, but that is the reality of being at a relatively low latitude compared to the vast majority of the Midwest region. Yes, actual winters of varying length are infinitely superior to hot and humid summers as I prefer to be outside all the time during the summer season. Winter should have snow for winter sports, not dealing with rain, mud, and slop that is unproductive. The Lower Midwest and Upper South just can't deal with winter weather even though it happens every single year.
I lived in southwest SD for 3 years and we clearly had 5-6 months of continuous snow cover of at least an inch on unplowed areas. I suppose you could really squint and see four "seasons," but it was 5-6 months of clearly winter, about 4-6 weeks of spotty snow, wintry mix, rain, and sloppy snowmelt in May and sometimes early June, a springlike summer that rarely got 10 degrees above room temp that lasted from mid June to the end of August, cooling temps in September and the few trees lost their leaves, then spotty snow in early October, and then by the end of the month it was winter again. I suppose if you squint hard there are four seasons in there with the sloppiness being spring and the handful of weeks of post-summer but pre-sticking snow being fall, but with half of the year being winter, they're short.
Missouri shares hot daytime summertime high temperatures and humidity with OK, TX, and the western Southeast due to the Gulf stream. But the spring, fall, and particularly winters are grossly different. Getting below freezing for a middle of winter low is uncommon in the coastal South and TX. It's often that MO won't get *above* freezing for a high in the middle of winter for days at a time, particularly northern MO. The actual South doesn't have four seasons, particularly the coastal Southeast. My folks lived in GA for years and I visited frequently. GA has two seasons, a summer with temps typically in the 80s for highs and then a "not summer" where highs are in the 50s and 60s and lows are in the 40s. I swam in an outdoor unheated pool on Christmas in GA one year and it was relatively comfortable as the water was about 60 degrees. Try that in MO, you may or may not have ice on top of the pool. The water is going to be a familiar temp to the "winter sports" people up north who consider polar bear plunges to be a winter sport.
You are not going to have places that have a winter with significant amounts of prolonged, well below freezing temperatures with persistent snow cover and have that winter only last the three months that the season of winter lasts in the Midwest. You must accept an unusally long winter to get persistent snow.
Personally, I love outdoor activities. I am an avid runner, hiker, hunter, target shooter, and enjoy fishing. MO is relatively decent for that. Even in the hottest part of summer, it's only room temperature or so until 8 am and it gets light out at 5 am. Running when it's 70 in the morning in a Missouri summer, or when it's upper 70s in the evening (Jimmy Carter room temp) is comfortable. It's doable to run in the early afternoon in January in MO when there's a little weak sun and it's in the 40s. It is NOT doable to run when it's -10 F like it is in the north in January. Also, the lack of persistent snowfall is good for running, running on snow is not fun at all. When I was in SD, I unfortunately holed up and ran thousands of miles on a treadmill. It was great to run outside more than half the year when I moved back to MO. Ditto with hiking (although more doable when it is cold, but still not pleasant), hunting, and shooting. Try to shoot well with giant mittens and you are shivering because it is -10 F and the wind is blowing in your face. 45 and calm is MUCH friendlier. Yes, you can't ice fish when there is no ice, but you catch the same fish ice fishing as you do fishing the same body of water when there is no ice. I can drink beer and fish sitting on the bank the same as I can sitting in a shanty, and it's more comfortable when it isn't -10 F. Plus watching for a tip up to trip isn't really fishing. Casting and jigging for fish is fishing, you certainly can't cast for them with ice on the lake.
Skiing is fine, but it's something you do rarely. I run several days per week.I can easily travel up north once every few years to ski but stay somewhere nicer to run multiple times per week. Snowmobiling? Not that different from using a Jet Ski on water or an ATV on land. Can't Jet Ski on ice and ATVs do variably well in the snow, and it sucks to drive one when it's -10 F out.
Winter isn't all it's cracked up to be and summer is really only nasty from about 11 am to 5 pm. Outside of that, it's not bad. Certainly much more manageable than having days when the high is -10 F and the low is -40 F and you're worrying about finding a plugin for your block heater so you can start your truck.
I lived in southwest SD for 3 years and we clearly had 5-6 months of continuous snow cover of at least an inch on unplowed areas. I suppose you could really squint and see four "seasons," but it was 5-6 months of clearly winter, about 4-6 weeks of spotty snow, wintry mix, rain, and sloppy snowmelt in May and sometimes early June, a springlike summer that rarely got 10 degrees above room temp that lasted from mid June to the end of August, cooling temps in September and the few trees lost their leaves, then spotty snow in early October, and then by the end of the month it was winter again. I suppose if you squint hard there are four seasons in there with the sloppiness being spring and the handful of weeks of post-summer but pre-sticking snow being fall, but with half of the year being winter, they're short.
Missouri shares hot daytime summertime high temperatures and humidity with OK, TX, and the western Southeast due to the Gulf stream. But the spring, fall, and particularly winters are grossly different. Getting below freezing for a middle of winter low is uncommon in the coastal South and TX. It's often that MO won't get *above* freezing for a high in the middle of winter for days at a time, particularly northern MO. The actual South doesn't have four seasons, particularly the coastal Southeast. My folks lived in GA for years and I visited frequently. GA has two seasons, a summer with temps typically in the 80s for highs and then a "not summer" where highs are in the 50s and 60s and lows are in the 40s. I swam in an outdoor unheated pool on Christmas in GA one year and it was relatively comfortable as the water was about 60 degrees. Try that in MO, you may or may not have ice on top of the pool. The water is going to be a familiar temp to the "winter sports" people up north who consider polar bear plunges to be a winter sport.
You are not going to have places that have a winter with significant amounts of prolonged, well below freezing temperatures with persistent snow cover and have that winter only last the three months that the season of winter lasts in the Midwest. You must accept an unusally long winter to get persistent snow.
Personally, I love outdoor activities. I am an avid runner, hiker, hunter, target shooter, and enjoy fishing. MO is relatively decent for that. Even in the hottest part of summer, it's only room temperature or so until 8 am and it gets light out at 5 am. Running when it's 70 in the morning in a Missouri summer, or when it's upper 70s in the evening (Jimmy Carter room temp) is comfortable. It's doable to run in the early afternoon in January in MO when there's a little weak sun and it's in the 40s. It is NOT doable to run when it's -10 F like it is in the north in January. Also, the lack of persistent snowfall is good for running, running on snow is not fun at all. When I was in SD, I unfortunately holed up and ran thousands of miles on a treadmill. It was great to run outside more than half the year when I moved back to MO. Ditto with hiking (although more doable when it is cold, but still not pleasant), hunting, and shooting. Try to shoot well with giant mittens and you are shivering because it is -10 F and the wind is blowing in your face. 45 and calm is MUCH friendlier. Yes, you can't ice fish when there is no ice, but you catch the same fish ice fishing as you do fishing the same body of water when there is no ice. I can drink beer and fish sitting on the bank the same as I can sitting in a shanty, and it's more comfortable when it isn't -10 F. Plus watching for a tip up to trip isn't really fishing. Casting and jigging for fish is fishing, you certainly can't cast for them with ice on the lake.
Skiing is fine, but it's something you do rarely. I run several days per week.I can easily travel up north once every few years to ski but stay somewhere nicer to run multiple times per week. Snowmobiling? Not that different from using a Jet Ski on water or an ATV on land. Can't Jet Ski on ice and ATVs do variably well in the snow, and it sucks to drive one when it's -10 F out.
Winter isn't all it's cracked up to be and summer is really only nasty from about 11 am to 5 pm. Outside of that, it's not bad. Certainly much more manageable than having days when the high is -10 F and the low is -40 F and you're worrying about finding a plugin for your block heater so you can start your truck.
Yes, but the southern half of MO south of the MO river usually doesn't stay below freezing for days at a time very often, rarely in the southern quarter of Missouri does it ever get cold like that. Snow doesn't stay on the ground long down in southern MO. St. Louis had a recent spell of days below freezing in a row a couple times but that is still not the normal.
Also don't forget West Virginia. Their winters are just as cold as MO and the far northern part of WV that jets into OH and PA is a lot colder than St. Louis in the winter.
Then again WV is debatable as really being a true southern state. Kentucky also has the same weather as MO. the most northern part of KY near Cinci, at the international airport on the KY side the daytime highs in the winter are colder than St. Louis.
Also Oklahoma gets nasty winter weather and can get some heavy snows too. I remember a few years back the cold snap that parts of northern OK got down to 30 BELOW zero at night.
The southern quarter of Missouri has warmer winter weather than just about anywhere in West Virginia. In places like Joplin it can get cold but then it warms up a few days later.
The only parts of MO that have colder winters than far northern Kentucky around Covington, Cinci is the far northern portions of the state a line from Hannibal to St. Joe.
With all due respect, you've never lived here. We have 4 well defined seasons. I know, I've been here 50 years.
I have lived in MO, and it is more what I like to term "extreme shifts in the weather," not four very well defined seasons that are common further north. Yes, I have lived in five other states so I have a frame of reference to use.
Yes, but the southern half of MO south of the MO river usually doesn't stay below freezing for days at a time very often, rarely in the southern quarter of Missouri does it ever get cold like that. Snow doesn't stay on the ground long down in southern MO. St. Louis had a recent spell of days below freezing in a row a couple times but that is still not the normal.
I currently live less than 50 miles from the Arkansas border and it's hit -10 F or lower for the last 3 years in a row here. It doesn't stay that cold for very long, as average temps in January are highs in the low 40s, lows in the mid 20s. But it does get that cold and a week with highs below freezing is common.
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Also don't forget West Virginia. Their winters are just as cold as MO and the far northern part of WV that jets into OH and PA is a lot colder than St. Louis in the winter.
Then again WV is debatable as really being a true southern state. Kentucky also has the same weather as MO. the most northern part of KY near Cinci, at the international airport on the KY side the daytime highs in the winter are colder than St. Louis.
WV isn't anywhere near the Midwest and its weather is not comparable. Nevada inhabits the same latitude as MO, but their weather is also very different from ours since they are well outside of the Midwest. WV may be colder, but NV is much warmer. Latitude matters here as well as longitude.
WV is not Southern. Remember, they seceded from Virginia to be on the side of the North during the Civil War. WV is fairly unique and best described as "Appalachian."
The Missouri bootheel is pretty Southern, and I imagine that the areas around Springfield and Branson are too, though I've never been there. The rest of Missouri is Midwestern, though, with the northern third being stereotypically Midwestern, and the river valleys from Jefferson City to Cape Girardeau being like the Ohio Valley.
The Missouri bootheel is pretty Southern, and I imagine that the areas around Springfield and Branson are too, though I've never been there. The rest of Missouri is Midwestern, though, with the northern third being stereotypically Midwestern, and the river valleys from Jefferson City to Cape Girardeau being like the Ohio Valley.
Springfield and Branson are not very Southern, particularly compared to the Bootheel and especially some place that is actually Southern such as Alabama. I live in the Springfield/Branson area so I should know. Cape Girardeau is much closer to being Southern than Springfield/Branson.
The northern third of MO is identical to Iowa, southern MN, and the Great Plains, except accents change to the "up nort" accent once you get about halfway between I-80 and I-90 and they think northern Missouri is "southern" because we don't say "aboot" and "uff da." But, if I drove you some unspecified distance from St. Joe north up I-29 during the summer and dropped you off, you couldn't tell if you were 10 miles north of St. Joe or 10 miles south of the Canadian border unless you turned on a GPS. My wife and I joked that Missouri started at St. Joe when we made many trips along I-29 south back home to Missouri when we did a stint in SD.
I do agree with much of Missouri outside of the Bootheel and south of US 36 being pretty similar to the Ohio Valley.
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