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skrazzle - wow, you simply don't cease to amaze me...
Brickmama provided a link, to a KC newspaper, that had unbiased non-objective comparisons of 14 other downtowns, including StL. You dissed this, as it was 'old' - at ~7 months, this article is deemed 'old', by you, and therefore irrelevant.
You provide your own [I would wager to say biased ] report, on a trip to downtown area StL, when you accompanied some friends,,, TWO years ago. True, you disclaim your own POV by stating "I've been to STL prob 10 times or so in my life, so i'm not gonna say im an authority on STL...." Yet sure does seem that many of your posts slamming StL are based on this trip, and also upon your reading some forums were who knows who are posting whatever drivel that they desire...
So, comparing a KC Star newspaper article that is just a tad over 1/2 year old to your trip of ~2 years ago. Nice...
If you notice, I never offered my own biased reports from STL, I tried specifically to leave them out, my opinions have been given enough on these forums as is. However, I was finally ASKED if I had ever been to STL in the last few years...
The KC star article I called outdated info based on restaurants and bars opened downtown because it didn't take into account P&L district, this is of course not a huge deal... but its a fact that should be pointed out to keep things in context.
If you go back and read you will see what I DID compare it too was statements from STL residents from less then a month ago, and an article also written by another STL resident.
Sorry if things are going to fast for you here, but try to pay attention.
On topic... my personal opinion of KC and my argument FOR it over STL (as this is a kc vs stl thread)
Kansas City offers-
A better St. Patricks day parade (I mention this since its approaching) which is rated in the top 10 in the nation.
Better BBQ if thats your thing, including the American Royal....
Better Art museums, and a strong tradition of art which can be seen all over the city.
The city of fountains, only Rome has more... we have many parks with easy access all over the city.
The Plaza, one of the nations first shopping districts. It's beautiful and they expanding the area all the time.
KC and STL both have their attractions and some of KCs are:
Nelson Art Gallery
National WW1 Meseum and Monument.
Worlds of Fun
Oceans of Fun
[SIZE=2]Schlitterbahn Vacation Village (opening soon)
- This will be huge, from their website: "[/SIZE][SIZE=2]Construction of lodging components and the shops, restaurants, and attractions of the Riverwalk continues through 2011. When complete, there will be 750,000 square feet of retail space and 1,100 lodging units all fully integrated within the waterpark. Eventually more than four miles of interconnected waterways will be contribute to the Schlitterbahn Vacation Village experience."[/SIZE]
Science City
Negro League Baseball Museum
Museum of Contemporary Art
Major league soccer, football, and baseball
A downtown that is growing twice as fast as STL.
Power & Light District
Westport
Rivermarket
Soon we will have the Kauffman Performing Arts center, which will be massive.
Several casinos if gamling is your thing, and I think a new one opening in KS.
AMC (headquarted in KC) will soon be opening the historic Mainstreet Theatre as it's flagship theater.
Quite many historic neighborhoods which have been listed already in this thread... ranging from super pricey to affordable, and because of the current economy anyone looking for a fixer upper in a good neighborhood will have A LOT of options.
On that note also housing is cheaper in KC.
If underground Hip Hop is your thing, KC is home to Tech 9 and Mac Lethal, and several other MCs. There is always a lot of mc and dj battles going on, especially within range of the KC art institute. If you like more mainsteam STL is home to nelly, who.. u know is a good pop artist.
oh and on the P&L district, since opening... there are free concerts there all the time.... GOOD free ones.
I'd like to point out a few things where STL does beat KC:
We have a good system set up for roads, it doesn't take long to drive from one place to the next.
Lightrail- i've heard STL is no good but I have no idea, and still having it is one step further then KC
Location- It's closer to Chicago... i love Chicago, for some this won't matter, but I think its nice... KC is close to Omaha and STL only, which I do like Omaha also, but it doesn't compare to Chicago.
Zoo- Our zoo is crap. They have plans to make it better which sound really good, but as it stands right now ours is weak, STL is very nice. On the other hand it only takes a few hours to get Omaha which has an amazing zoo, but thats really not any kind of props to KC LOL.
i'll add more later... just wanted to throw something down quick.
So your are making a judgement on DowNtown STL based on Union Station and The Landing during the day. Oh please. You just confirmed that you are not qualified in comparing the downtowns in either city. Next time you come to STL let me know and I will give you a personal tour of our vibrant downtown area along with the other 89 neighborhoods located within the city.
BTW Westport is not considered downtown KC..LOL. Your post above has subjective written all over it. I have reason to believe you havent tried BBQ, our art musuems, our St Paddy's parades (we have such a large irish influence we have 2 different parades)
Anyway I am done arguing with you or anyone else on this board and wil be posting a comprehensive list of what STL has to offer and am not going to compare it to KC.
So your are making a judgement on DowNtown STL based on Union Station and The Landing during the day. Oh please. You just confirmed that you are not qualified in comparing the downtowns in either city. Next time you come to STL let me know and I will give you a personal tour of our vibrant downtown area along with the other 89 neighborhoods located within the city.
BTW Westport is not considered downtown KC..LOL. Your post above has subjective written all over it. I have reason to believe you havent tried BBQ, our art musuems, our St Paddy's parades (we have such a large irish influence we have 2 different parades)
Anyway I am done arguing with you or anyone else on this board and wil be posting a comprehensive list of what STL has to offer and am not going to compare it to KC.
I didn't call Westport part of downtown. I said a downtown that is growing, then went back to my list of things in KC and said westport, P&L, and rivermarket, didn't mention plaza as I had already said it above.
What art museum in STL beats The Nelson? Seriously maybe something does and i'm just ignorant of it... i'd like to know... Your BBQ i've had, its not bad, its just not as good, nor as well known as KC.
St Paddys all i'm saying is we are one nationally one of the top 10 and STL isn't.. thats a fact.
If you look, most of what i've said about KC vs STL has been grounded in fact, population, neighborhoods, things to down, downtown expansion... and i've posted links.. i've countered what you say... I never once said my personal opinion of STL based on my experience until you asked... i've been there around 10 times, the last time was a few years ago... and guess what, first impressions make the city and STL didn't deliver.
My own post never said I was qualified, but I do feel the residents of STL are qualified and you saw what they had to say and I linked those too you...
So i'm glad your done posting and you can bow to my superior knowledge of information as it pertains to these 2 cities.... it is CITY VS CITY topic, and hands down KC wins.
Hang out in our forum and talk to some of those people.
Would you like me to go through yours and pick out Negative Nancy comments from a bunch of stupid Overland Park morons? I've seen plenty. Puh-leaze.
We have the 2nd largest Mardi Gras celebration in the country (second only to NOLA). So by your, incredibly well thought out logic, that beats Kansas City's top 10 St. Patrick's Day parade.
We have the oldest and largest outdoor amphitheater in the U.S in the Muny -- better shows and more respected than Starlight.
I see your St. Patrick's Day parade and raise you a Mardi Gras.
And St. Louis has 2 St. Patrick's Day parades, one in Dogtown (Irish-settled neighborhood) and one Downtown.
The recession has slowed things down. Skyhouse is a no-go, The Arcade and the Alexa are in limbo, Roberts tower is still under construction.
skrazzle, I think the problem is your haughty attitude. There is nothing wrong with pride in your city. It's a good thing. However, make sure you have facts and back them up with something.
Quote:
40th St. Louis St. Patrick's Day Parade 2009 Saturday, March 14th @ 12:00
Noted as one of the best parades in the country more than 250,000 spectators will view over 120 units, including floats, marching bands, and large inflatable balloons. The Run : One of the largest in St. Louis, with over 6000 participants, the Michelob ULTRA St. Patrick's Day Parade Run takes place at 9:00 AM on the morning of the Parade.
Quote:
Kansas City St. Patrick's Day Parade 2009 Tuesday March17 at 11.00 am
Downtown Kansas City
From Crown Center to the Sprint Center along Grand
Each year the Kansas City St. Patrick's Day Parade has a different theme. The theme may reflect our Irish heritage, our Kansas City heritage or may even build upon current events. In the fall before the next year's parade, the Parade Committee begins throwing around many different ideas for the upcoming parade's theme. After several weeks of difficult deliberations, white smoke appears from the roof of Kelly's in Westport signifying that the theme has been chosen. Not really, but...you get the idea.
Ok so you are going to call me out? Fine! You didnt win anything. The elements in which you state KC is better is because of BBQ, downtown pop growth, a better art museum, and the St Pats parade. Guess what!!! Cities are much more complex creatures that those four aspects.
1 BBQ. Totally subjective and someone would ever say that KC is an overall better city than STL because of the flavor of your brisket. Come on get real!!! If you want to do a comparison on food then why dont you compare the total food culture of both cities.
2 St Pats parade. You are basing your argument on someones opinion at AOL and claim it as one of the reasons your city is better. Thats like saying Savanah Ga is a better city than Seattle because they have a better St Pats parade. Again we have 2 seperate parades and the one in DT STL draws 200k.
3 Art Museum. Your city is better because you like your art museum better. Again, totally opinated. If I were you, I would automatically claim our museum is better because of this article Travel Holiday's Best Art Museums in America on Lists of Bests However I refuse to form an opinion until I visit both. Nor would I ever say STL is better than KC because of our Art museum.
4 Downtown pop growth. I have yet to confirm you are correct that KC is growing faster since I havent been able to place my fingers on concrete data. If you happen to be correct, growth doesnt neccessarly make a place better. That would be like some stating Phoenix is better than NYC because it grew faster this decade. Plus uncontained growth can be self destructive. See Florida
You still havent accepted the fact that the KC Star article has researched simular DT's and came to the conclusion that KC is behind in many areas. The only thing you can dispute is that you have added more Bars and resturants due to the addition of P&L. WHOOOOPIEEEEE. You dont think STL has added resturants and bars since 2006? I can name at least 20 that have opened since the article was published. We still have more that have opened. What about the other aspects in the article? # of Office workers, new hotels, money invested in the area, cultural offerings, etc... Go ahead, give props to the mostly vacant Sprint arena, a P&l district that is already is a burden on the city and if fails will be a huge blow to your downtown development.
You posted various negative comments of STL residents. You must be naive to think that KC residents do not complain or even dislike KC. I would probably say it even worse in KC.
If you want to state that ABC City is better than XYZ city then back them up with facts that make the city as a whole better just not a few components.
Bottom Line....You have a inferiority complex when in comes to this subject matter or anything that involves your city and STL. All cities are different creatures and have different offerings. It is unfair to say any city is better than another especially when you have no idea what you are talking about or make silly comparisons such as BBQ or a Parade. Next time someone asks opinions on the two cities simply state what your has to offer and why you like it and move on instead of trying to come up with ways to make STL look bad and prop your city up.
Keep in mind, St. Louis has 2 art museums: The regular one and the Contemporary Art Museum. There's also the Laumeier (sp?) sculpture park, and various galleries throughout the city. And there's the Science Center, and the Missouri History Museum, and the Missouri Botanical Garden, City Museum, Museum of Transportation, Pulitzer Foundation for the Arts, and the Black World History Museum.
Last edited by STLCardsBlues1989; 02-10-2009 at 03:28 PM..
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] report, on a trip to downtown area StL, when you accompanied some friends,,, TWO years ago. True, you disclaim your own POV by stating "I've been to STL prob 10 times or so in my life, so i'm not gonna say im an authority on STL...." Yet sure does seem that many of your posts slamming StL are based on this trip, and also upon your reading some forums were who knows who are posting whatever drivel that they desire... 
