In what ways is Southern Missouri southern, and in what ways is it not? (St. Louis: neighborhoods, casino)

[KenTheFramer]

During The "War of Northern Aggression" Missouri was definitely southern.

[imperialmog]

Complicated question since Missouri was established as a Southern state to start with. Then starting around 1850 or so immigration and other factors made the state culturally Midwestern by around 1900 or so. Though even then there were certain things that were a bit different form the rest of the Midwest in terms fo demographics and laws. Another factor is the whole time the state of Missouri has unlike almost everywhere else in the Midwest had more contacts, personal connections, and influences from Southern culture due to being much closer.

One thing that is also to consider is how fast culture and society in the South has changed the last few decades, espically due to the large numbers of newcomers there both domestically and internationally. It has been noted that a lot of areas are becoming less Southern there but the definition might just have to evolve. If there is any place that might become more culturally Southern over time Missouri is likely the most likely location for it to occur. The main reason is that Southern culture in the last 20 or so years is being more defined by Evangelical Protestantism as a means of differentiating from other areas. Missouri outside of the St. Louis area has percentages of Evangelicals for the most part that is very different from the Midwest and closer to the South in numbers.

Also politically it looks like it is starting to be more different than the rest of the Midwest in terms of trends. This likely has to do with the higher numbers of Evangelicals causing the differences to appear more. I just see the political climate and eventually laws over time is looking less like Ohio or Michigan and more like North Carolina and Georgia.

[imperialmog]

What is funny about the alligator references is I have heard even from some DNR people that say that sometime within the next few decades some might start appearing in the bootheel area, especially if winters get any less severe in cold than they are now. The idea is that the range for them is a little further North than what is stated due to combinations involving range expansion, climate change, and that some areas deny the existance of any in an area. The last one is moreso if it is a new state they are entering which does have precedence since it took a while for Missouri DNR to admit mountain lions have started returning to the state. (they only admitted it after a couple of wild ones were hit by cars in populated areas) The reason they don't want to admit it is due to having to set up conservation plans for the animals due to costing time and money that they might not have.

For alligators I have heard this is the case with Tennessee since they very likely now have populations of them along the western edge since I remember seeing stories of numbers of them appearing around Memphis and some have seen them in Reelfoot Lake which is just across the river from Missouri. I have also heard some reports of wild alligators in Arkansas appearing further and further north the last decade or two as populations increase. I know some people who have heard about one found near Jonesboro which is 30 miles from the state line.

With Spanish Moss I have noticed you start seeing that about 30-50 miles South of where you would start to expect alligators to be found for the most part. It does also require the right soil and tree so it might take longer for it to appear in new areas as an animal would.

[linicx]

I lived in MO for a number of years. and traveled all over the state. for nearly thirty I think with the exception of the UAW in St. Louis - Missouri is a right to work state. But probably the single thing that disturbed me the most was the attempt of a church in Southern Missouri to not only influence its members, but to also influence city decisions which indirectly affected the quality of its citizens lives. I moved from the area within a year of moving to Missouri the first time. I returne two other times.

[imperialmog]

I noticed culturally there are several main groups in the state. The St. Louis cultural area is the city/suburbs and outlying areas that are mainly defined by the Mississippi River area down to Cape Girardeau and up the Missouri to Jefferson City with a 5-10 mile strip on either side along wiht some pockets Southeast of Jefferson City but North of Rolla. This basically lines up with the extent of French and later German settlement was. It also is where those ethnic groupls along with Catholicism is more dominant than people of American/Engish/Scotch-Irish and Evangelical Protestantism which is the larger groups in almost all other areas of the state.

Another divide is between the areas North of the Missouri River and South of it. This largely has to do with land use patterns which affected culture. Another is the Bootheel and areas just West to Northwest of it. That difference is similar in nature between the Upland and Lowland South due to both being tied by geographical reasons.

[MOBaptist]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Ummm, they definitely do not...they don't say it like that in Central Missouri either, at least not from the people I've heard. My grandmother was born and raised in Mexico, Missouri, which is near Columbia, and just said "Washington," and she had the typical rural accent found in Missouri.

Wrong altough in from Kansas City we all have the Missouri Southern Draw and we say waRshington if you are a MO native

[kshe95girl]

Originally Posted by MOBaptist

Wrong altough in from Kansas City we all have the Missouri Southern Draw and we say waRshington if you are a MO native

Hardly.
Some of us from the other side of the same state are altogether Midwestern, and even speak German.
Get out and explore our wonderful state more, you might be susprised at what you learn.
Oh, and no one grows cotton or rice in KC.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by imperialmog

What is funny about the alligator references is I have heard even from some DNR people that say that sometime within the next few decades some might start appearing in the bootheel area, especially if winters get any less severe in cold than they are now. The idea is that the range for them is a little further North than what is stated due to combinations involving range expansion, climate change, and that some areas deny the existance of any in an area. The last one is moreso if it is a new state they are entering which does have precedence since it took a while for Missouri DNR to admit mountain lions have started returning to the state. (they only admitted it after a couple of wild ones were hit by cars in populated areas) The reason they don't want to admit it is due to having to set up conservation plans for the animals due to costing time and money that they might not have.

For alligators I have heard this is the case with Tennessee since they very likely now have populations of them along the western edge since I remember seeing stories of numbers of them appearing around Memphis and some have seen them in Reelfoot Lake which is just across the river from Missouri. I have also heard some reports of wild alligators in Arkansas appearing further and further north the last decade or two as populations increase. I know some people who have heard about one found near Jonesboro which is 30 miles from the state line.

With Spanish Moss I have noticed you start seeing that about 30-50 miles South of where you would start to expect alligators to be found for the most part. It does also require the right soil and tree so it might take longer for it to appear in new areas as an animal would.

Actually I've read that once in awhile in the bootheel in the summer alligators are sighted because they swim up river.

I've even read once someone said the range of the alligator was all the way up to far southern IL!!

Alligators can survive more harsh temperatures though. It VERY rarely ever gets down to 0 in the bootheel so I guess it is possible they can make their way up.

[onegoalstl]

Originally Posted by kshe95girl

Hardly.
Some of us from the other side of the same state are altogether Midwestern, and even speak German.
Get out and explore our wonderful state more, you might be susprised at what you learn.
Oh, and no one grows cotton or rice in KC.

KC area was more southern than St. Louis back during slavery. They were also more pro confederate.

[GunnerTHB]

Originally Posted by imperialmog

I noticed culturally there are several main groups in the state. The St. Louis cultural area is the city/suburbs and outlying areas that are mainly defined by the Mississippi River area down to Cape Girardeau and up the Missouri to Jefferson City with a 5-10 mile strip on either side along wiht some pockets Southeast of Jefferson City but North of Rolla. This basically lines up with the extent of French and later German settlement was. It also is where those ethnic groupls along with Catholicism is more dominant than people of American/Engish/Scotch-Irish and Evangelical Protestantism which is the larger groups in almost all other areas of the state.

Another divide is between the areas North of the Missouri River and South of it. This largely has to do with land use patterns which affected culture. Another is the Bootheel and areas just West to Northwest of it. That difference is similar in nature between the Upland and Lowland South due to both being tied by geographical reasons.

I've lived in Cape County and I have to disagree with the St. Louis comment. I've made the trip up and down the I-55 corridor many times and I don't think Cape has any influence from St. Louis. I think the St. Louis influence ends when you get to Perryville and maybe even before. I would say that the Cape Girardeau area is either a blending area, or it's own culture that is about a 50/50 mix between the South and the Midwest. I went to Kentucky recently (Wickliffe, Mayfield, Murray) and I didn't notice much of a change of anything from Cape County. Sweet tea is available at all the gas stations just like in Cape. I never realized how uncommon that is in some places until I went to college. lol

I have also been to Rolla for school and I get the vibe that it was once much more southern than it is now. When I go to Rolla I get asked where I'm from because of my accent all the time. One time I had a student guess that I was from Mississippi and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. lol. I know for a fact that my accent isn't that thick but maybe since he was from KC he thought it was.

I think what alot of people don't get is the difference between rural & southern culture. While there is some overlap, they are different. The key thing to remember is that rural areas do not change as fast as urban areas. That accent you hear in central missouri out in the country is not a southern accent. My buddies from New Madrid & Kennett have a southern accent, not a rural accent. I suppose I have a mix of the two since Cape Girardeau isn't regarded by most to be southern enough to have accents?