Missouri...Southern or Midwestern? (Kansas City, St. Louis: fishing, worth, boat)
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If I recall wasn't it illegal to fly the stars and bars in MO after Lincoln declared martial law?
Fact - Martial law was declared in Missouri by General John C Fremont on August 30th, 1861, not Abraham Lincoln.
Fact - President Abraham Lincoln revoked the order on November 2, 1861 and fired Fremont.
Fact - In the martial law declaration ( John C. Fremont Order of Martial Law Throughout Missouri August 30, 1861 ) never mentions flags of any type
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Originally Posted by onegoalstl
However this was Lincolns plan. Was to let the Confederates have rural areas, but control cities like St. Louis that were pro union.
Do you stay up late at night making this stuff up? LOL!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl
Also outside of the St. Louis metro area most of MO was neutral, or leaned Confederate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onegoalstl
I wonder what the total union troop number would have been if we didn't have all the newly arrived Germans in Stl, Ste Gen. What is a general ball park how many immigrants joined the Union army?
Which is it? And what will it be tomorrow??
That whole numbers comparison of Missourian residents that joined the Union Army compared to the Southern Army during the war really is a number you like to pretend doesn't exist, isn't it? But you keep trying. You just never know. History is re-written every day by politicians
By the way, since immigration during the Civil War is a hot button issue you keep trying to push, please provide a list of great Missouri 'Southern hero's of the Civil War' that were 'native born Missourian's'. There are a few - just not very many. Governor Clairborne Fox Jackson wasn't. General Sterling Price wasn't. Seven of the original nine Missouri State Guard commanders weren't. Joseph Shelby wasn't. William Quantrill wasn't.
Kshe has given you good advice. The forum won't be nearly as fun but you really need to find another topic to get fixated on and let the dead of the Civil War rest in peace
Fact - Martial law was declared in Missouri by General John C Fremont on August 30th, 1861, not Abraham Lincoln.
Fact - President Abraham Lincoln revoked the order on November 2, 1861 and fired Fremont.
Fact - In the martial law declaration ( John C. Fremont Order of Martial Law Throughout Missouri August 30, 1861 ) never mentions flags of any type
Do you stay up late at night making this stuff up? LOL!!
Which is it? And what will it be tomorrow??
That whole numbers comparison of Missourian residents that joined the Union Army compared to the Southern Army during the war really is a number you like to pretend doesn't exist, isn't it? But you keep trying. You just never know. History is re-written every day by politicians
By the way, since immigration during the Civil War is a hot button issue you keep trying to push, please provide a list of great Missouri 'Southern hero's of the Civil War' that were 'native born Missourian's'. There are a few - just not very many. Governor Clairborne Fox Jackson wasn't. General Sterling Price wasn't. Seven of the original nine Missouri State Guard commanders weren't. Joseph Shelby wasn't. William Quantrill wasn't.
Kshe has given you good advice. The forum won't be nearly as fun but you really need to find another topic to get fixated on and let the dead of the Civil War rest in peace
You forgot Confederate General and governor of MO John Marmaduke. He was born in Saline County.
I wonder what the total union troop number would have been if we didn't have all the newly arrived Germans in Stl, Ste Gen.
What is a general ball park how many immigrants joined the Union army?
The French part of my family that came down the Mississippi in 1699 and settled in the Sainte Genevieve area all enlisted in the Union, as did agreat deal of the other old French families.
It wasnt just German immigrants, although they did as well.
Thats on my mothers maternal side, on her paternal side, they were also French, came over with Lafayette during the Revolution, they were the ones that enlisted on the Confederate side, they lived right over the MO border in Arkansas and owned White House Plantation, the town is still there.
Fact - Martial law was declared in Missouri by General John C Fremont on August 30th, 1861, not Abraham Lincoln.
Fact - President Abraham Lincoln revoked the order on November 2, 1861 and fired Fremont.
Fact - In the martial law declaration ( John C. Fremont Order of Martial Law Throughout Missouri August 30, 1861 ) never mentions flags of any type
Do you stay up late at night making this stuff up? LOL!!
Which is it? And what will it be tomorrow??
That whole numbers comparison of Missourian residents that joined the Union Army compared to the Southern Army during the war really is a number you like to pretend doesn't exist, isn't it? But you keep trying. You just never know. History is re-written every day by politicians
By the way, since immigration during the Civil War is a hot button issue you keep trying to push, please provide a list of great Missouri 'Southern hero's of the Civil War' that were 'native born Missourian's'. There are a few - just not very many. Governor Clairborne Fox Jackson wasn't. General Sterling Price wasn't. Seven of the original nine Missouri State Guard commanders weren't. Joseph Shelby wasn't. William Quantrill wasn't.
Kshe has given you good advice. The forum won't be nearly as fun but you really need to find another topic to get fixated on and let the dead of the Civil War rest in peace
Thank you, and amen!
There are plenty of other fascinating bits of MO to talk about!
Back on topic, Missouri is a pretty unique state that doesn't really fit into any classification very well and doesn't really resemble any of its neighboring states.
- Geographically and topographically, Missouri has much more in common with the Southeast than it does Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, or Kansas. Parts of north-central and northwest Missouri are the slight rolling hills and cleared-off farmland typical of a Midwest state, but most of the state has real hills and trees, much like Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, or Georgia. However, the dirt is brown, not red like in the South.
- Accents most everywhere except the southeast corner of the state are Midwestern and are similar to Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, and Iowa. People from one of those states rarely identify a different accent in people from other stats in that list, or if they do, they rarely if ever comment on it. However, people with a considerably different accent (like up in Minnesota) will usually notice a Missourian's accent and guess that they are from Missouri or Kansas by their accent- they will occasionally guess southern Illinois or Oklahoma but almost never Iowa or Nebraska. So maybe there is a southern Midwest accent as opposed to a northern Midwest (Iowa, Nebraska) accent?
- Food and drink is a mix of Southern and Midwest. Kansas City is renowned for its pork-based barbecue, which is decidedly a Southern thing. It also has one of the tastiest steak cuts named after it as well, and steaks are a staple in the upper Midwest and Plains. Missouri is a big beer and wine-making state like Wisconsin, whereas the alcohol from the South is whiskey or bourbon. Missouri is also at the far northern reaches of the Waffle House and Chick-Fil-A range, and you can get a slider like Krystal's makes from White Castle- although White Castle started in Kansas, not the South. Real Southern cooking except for barbecue (like okra) isn't available in most of the state, and you will by default usually get unsweetened tea rather than sweet tea if you ask for tea in most places in Missouri.
- Sports and entertainment- Stock car racing and country music are huge just about everywhere in Missouri, just like in the South. However, most of the stations on the radio in most of the U.S. possibly excepting the Northeast and Left Coast are country stations, so I guess that one doesn't count too much. It's funny to hear people from Up North singing country songs and trying to impersonate the singers' drawls
So I guess that while some parts of Missouri are much more Southern than others, the rest of the state at least has a *little* Southern in it. Living well into the North makes it more apparent as getting even mediocre barbecue is a pain and the lack of hills, forests, and oven-blast high humidity summer heat is very noticeable.
Back on topic, Missouri is a pretty unique state that doesn't really fit into any classification very well and doesn't really resemble any of its neighboring states.
- Geographically and topographically, Missouri has much more in common with the Southeast than it does Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, or Kansas. Parts of north-central and northwest Missouri are the slight rolling hills and cleared-off farmland typical of a Midwest state, but most of the state has real hills and trees, much like Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, or Georgia. However, the dirt is brown, not red like in the South.
- Accents most everywhere except the southeast corner of the state are Midwestern and are similar to Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, and Iowa. People from one of those states rarely identify a different accent in people from other stats in that list, or if they do, they rarely if ever comment on it. However, people with a considerably different accent (like up in Minnesota) will usually notice a Missourian's accent and guess that they are from Missouri or Kansas by their accent- they will occasionally guess southern Illinois or Oklahoma but almost never Iowa or Nebraska. So maybe there is a southern Midwest accent as opposed to a northern Midwest (Iowa, Nebraska) accent?
- Food and drink is a mix of Southern and Midwest. Kansas City is renowned for its pork-based barbecue, which is decidedly a Southern thing. It also has one of the tastiest steak cuts named after it as well, and steaks are a staple in the upper Midwest and Plains. Missouri is a big beer and wine-making state like Wisconsin, whereas the alcohol from the South is whiskey or bourbon. Missouri is also at the far northern reaches of the Waffle House and Chick-Fil-A range, and you can get a slider like Krystal's makes from White Castle- although White Castle started in Kansas, not the South. Real Southern cooking except for barbecue (like okra) isn't available in most of the state, and you will by default usually get unsweetened tea rather than sweet tea if you ask for tea in most places in Missouri.
- Sports and entertainment- Stock car racing and country music are huge just about everywhere in Missouri, just like in the South. However, most of the stations on the radio in most of the U.S. possibly excepting the Northeast and Left Coast are country stations, so I guess that one doesn't count too much. It's funny to hear people from Up North singing country songs and trying to impersonate the singers' drawls
So I guess that while some parts of Missouri are much more Southern than others, the rest of the state at least has a *little* Southern in it. Living well into the North makes it more apparent as getting even mediocre barbecue is a pain and the lack of hills, forests, and oven-blast high humidity summer heat is very noticeable.
Good assessment. I agree. I must say though I love the southern cookin at our family dinners on Thanksgiving, Christmas & Easter . One thing that always struck me as odd tho is the fact that my meemaw always cooks dumplins without the chicken (And they are to DIE for). Most places around the Cape area don't do that (but their dumplins aint that good anyway!). Not sure if that's a Southern or Midwestern thing, however (or neither). Sweetened tea is set out at everyone's seat at the table as well. Now I'm gettin hungry again lol
Good assessment. I agree. I must say though I love the southern cookin at our family dinners on Thanksgiving, Christmas & Easter . One thing that always struck me as odd tho is the fact that my meemaw always cooks dumplins without the chicken (And they are to DIE for). Most places around the Cape area don't do that (but their dumplins aint that good anyway!). Not sure if that's a Southern or Midwestern thing, however (or neither). Sweetened tea is set out at everyone's seat at the table as well. Now I'm gettin hungry again lol
The Southern (PB) part of my family always makes dumplings with chicken, that being said, have you ever gone to Ste Gen to eat and had liver dumplings?
Totally unique to the area, and before you say ewwwwwwww, they are divine! http://www.visitstegen.com/files/Ess...Dumplings.html
Another thing that makes MO so special, in my humble opinion.
Back on topic, Missouri is a pretty unique state that doesn't really fit into any classification very well and doesn't really resemble any of its neighboring states.
- Geographically and topographically, Missouri has much more in common with the Southeast than it does Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, or Kansas. Parts of north-central and northwest Missouri are the slight rolling hills and cleared-off farmland typical of a Midwest state, but most of the state has real hills and trees, much like Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, or Georgia. However, the dirt is brown, not red like in the South.
- Accents most everywhere except the southeast corner of the state are Midwestern and are similar to Kansas, Nebraska, Illinois, and Iowa. People from one of those states rarely identify a different accent in people from other stats in that list, or if they do, they rarely if ever comment on it. However, people with a considerably different accent (like up in Minnesota) will usually notice a Missourian's accent and guess that they are from Missouri or Kansas by their accent- they will occasionally guess southern Illinois or Oklahoma but almost never Iowa or Nebraska. So maybe there is a southern Midwest accent as opposed to a northern Midwest (Iowa, Nebraska) accent?
- Food and drink is a mix of Southern and Midwest. Kansas City is renowned for its pork-based barbecue, which is decidedly a Southern thing. It also has one of the tastiest steak cuts named after it as well, and steaks are a staple in the upper Midwest and Plains. Missouri is a big beer and wine-making state like Wisconsin, whereas the alcohol from the South is whiskey or bourbon. Missouri is also at the far northern reaches of the Waffle House and Chick-Fil-A range, and you can get a slider like Krystal's makes from White Castle- although White Castle started in Kansas, not the South. Real Southern cooking except for barbecue (like okra) isn't available in most of the state, and you will by default usually get unsweetened tea rather than sweet tea if you ask for tea in most places in Missouri.
- Sports and entertainment- Stock car racing and country music are huge just about everywhere in Missouri, just like in the South. However, most of the stations on the radio in most of the U.S. possibly excepting the Northeast and Left Coast are country stations, so I guess that one doesn't count too much. It's funny to hear people from Up North singing country songs and trying to impersonate the singers' drawls
So I guess that while some parts of Missouri are much more Southern than others, the rest of the state at least has a *little* Southern in it. Living well into the North makes it more apparent as getting even mediocre barbecue is a pain and the lack of hills, forests, and oven-blast high humidity summer heat is very noticeable.
MO has a lot of Waffle Houses, or I like to call them Awful houses.
I notice the more south you go in Missouri, the more country and gospel stations. Especially when traveling when you get to near Cape I notice more of them.
MO has a lot of Waffle Houses, or I like to call them Awful houses.
I notice the more south you go in Missouri, the more country and gospel stations. Especially when traveling when you get to near Cape I notice more of them.
The Waffle House is wonderful about 3AM, after a night of drinking, other than that, not so much.
And there dont seem to be any in my slice of MO....we have a Huddle House, but I much prefer the local, non-chain establishments.
Good assessment. I agree. I must say though I love the southern cookin at our family dinners on Thanksgiving, Christmas & Easter . One thing that always struck me as odd tho is the fact that my meemaw always cooks dumplins without the chicken (And they are to DIE for). Most places around the Cape area don't do that (but their dumplins aint that good anyway!). Not sure if that's a Southern or Midwestern thing, however (or neither). Sweetened tea is set out at everyone's seat at the table as well. Now I'm gettin hungry again lol
I couldn't tell you about the dumplings. My parents are from well north of Missouri and weren't really big on cooking anything except desserts. My mother loves to cook pies and cakes and cookies, but not so much main dishes. My dad would occasionally grill but it really wasn't his thing. So if dumplings were something Midwestern, she wouldn't have cooked them anyway. If they were Southern, she would have avoided making them just on principle as my folks were from Up North and refuse to like anything Southern if they knew it's Southern. We all moved to Missouri when I was fairly young, so I really did grow up a Missourian, with the subtle Southern influences and all.
The subtle Southern influences in Missouri really didn't become obvious until I was an adult. I would sometimes do "odd" things like order biscuits and grits at a restaurant for breakfast or be willing to tend to ribs on my offset smoker for 4-6 hours rather than want to cook burgers on the grill because they were done in 15 minutes, unlike my parents. I didn't see anything odd about it, but they did. They are teetotalers so I don't drink in front of them, but my favorite drink is a Kentucky bourbon or Tennessee whiskey, three good fingers' worth on the rocks. That's not a Northerner's drink by any means; Northerners drink beer, sometimes with crap like tomato juice in it. ("Red beer" is a Nebraska thing and an utter waste of perfectly good beer. The only acceptable thing to do to beer is to put a lemon wedge in a Boulevard Wheat.) It's clearly an environmental thing because one of my brothers who also moved to Missouri when he was young and grew up there also acquired a love of barbecued pork, despite also taking a job up north as an adult. We joke that we're two of the few people Up North that make real barbecue. I wouldn't be too surprised to see us move back to the confused state that can't decide if it's Midwestern or Southern. Pancake-flat treeless lands and sloppy joes being called "barbecue" just doesn't rub me quite right.
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