What’s going on with The Eastern Shore Centre? (Mobile: foreclosure, brokers)

[kokoroanime]

Originally Posted by edtv411

From last week's Kathy Jumper Column:
Cheers! Haint Blue Brewing announces Mobile location | AL.com

Kay Jewelers is opening in Jubilee Square....another loss for ESC?

And while not ESC related....per Uncle Maddio's facebook Daphne page, their Daphne location is "moving" to McGowin Park on May 14th. In other words, instead of opening a 3rd location, they're closing their original Daphne store giving them 2 locations in Mobile.

I think the progress in Mobile is starting to have a noticeable effect on the Eastern Shore in general.

That's a facepalm to this. Why can't they just move Maddio's somewhere around Baldwin?

[PortCity]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

As a C-D regular and occasional Alabama passerby who just stumbled upon this thread (because it was the top of the active list) ... Sounds to me like Baldwin County is OVER RETAILED ... Which is very common in upscale / resort areas. Would that be a fair assessment?

I believe so.Inspite of Easternshore's affluence and growth.Now it would be nice to have the ESC in Mobile.It's a nice shopping center.

[Mellowboy]

I wish Barnes and Noble would take notice of Uncle Maddio's move and do the same! We need B&N in Mobile!!!

[edtv411]

Originally Posted by Newsboy

As a C-D regular and occasional Alabama passerby who just stumbled upon this thread (because it was the top of the active list) ... Sounds to me like Baldwin County is OVER RETAILED ... Which is very common in upscale / resort areas. Would that be a fair assessment?

VERY, VERY much so.
Not only do you have the Eastern Shore (ESC, Jubilee & Spanish Fort Town Center), there's Foley with the Tanger Outlet Mall and surrounding big box developments, The Pinnacle (Pelican Place) lifestyle mall in Gulf Shores, AND The Wharf in Orange Beach. Over the last decade or so, everything but the Tanger area has had it's periods of high vacancy, ownership problems, and the market's effects including the condo bubble, the oil spill, and general effects of the Great Recession. SFTC has never took off except for it's anchors, ESC had a strong start but the mall is bleeding tenants, Jubilee had some ownership and tenant issues but has since recovered, and Pelican Place and the Wharf have resorted to second-tier and tourist attractions to fill their empty spaces.

Compare this to the Destin/South Walton area that is WAY more upscale, supporting market-exclusive restaurants and retailers, amongst a large outlet mall and TWO lifestyle centers. It's more isolated unlike Baldwin County, which is much closer to Mobile and Pensacola.

[Newsboy]

Originally Posted by edtv411

VERY, VERY much so.
Not only do you have the Eastern Shore (ESC, Jubilee & Spanish Fort Town Center), there's Foley with the Tanger Outlet Mall and surrounding big box developments, The Pinnacle (Pelican Place) lifestyle mall in Gulf Shores, AND The Wharf in Orange Beach. Over the last decade or so, everything but the Tanger area has had it's periods of high vacancy, ownership problems, and the market's effects including the condo bubble, the oil spill, and general effects of the Great Recession. SFTC has never took off except for it's anchors, ESC had a strong start but the mall is bleeding tenants, Jubilee had some ownership and tenant issues but has since recovered, and Pelican Place and the Wharf have resorted to second-tier and tourist attractions to fill their empty spaces.

Compare this to the Destin/South Walton area that is WAY more upscale, supporting market-exclusive restaurants and retailers, amongst a large outlet mall and TWO lifestyle centers. It's more isolated unlike Baldwin County, which is much closer to Mobile and Pensacola.

I'm gonna throw out a theory here: Each of these centers are in different cities / municipalities correct? From my experience in Auburn / Opelika, I know there's HUGE competition among neighboring cities for retail projects because of Alabama's tax structure. You guys have low property taxes. But cities and towns in Alabama can collect local sales tax as well as municipal income tax that counties cannot (which comes into play especially in places like Hoover and the Birmingham suburbs for school funding.)

In Georgia, just for comparison, public schools (which are almost exclusively countywide systems) are funded at the local level by local property tax, and an extra penny sales tax (ESPLOST) can only be administered for specific non-operating expenditures -- and then only by voter approval (referendum) for a limited period (usually six years). The same is true for SPLOST (Special Purpose Local Option Sales Tax) that apply countywide. Cities and towns can get a negotiated share of a countywide SPLOST but they cannot vote to have their own exclusively. So sales taxes across the state are fairly even. Also, the state collects ALL sales tax and redistributes it back down to the local level. My understanding is that in Alabama, this is the opposite?

Anyway, my point is that in Alabama there seems to be more incentive for local city and town governments to seek out these revenue generation developments to spite their next door neighbor communities -- even those they share a county with. Better planning might have prevented some of these Baldwin County projects from ever getting built. Just an observation from afar. Does Alabama require any type of countywide or regional planning? I really don't know. But like I said, from my experience in Lee County, you can't find any more bitter city rivals than Auburn and Opelika -- and not just on the football field!

If I'm completely off base just tell me. Like I said, just a theory.

[edtv411]

I don't know if it's still the case, but ESC used to levy an additional percentage of sales tax on their stores on top of the city and county rate. I think SFTC does as well and tried to raise it to recoup their massive losses.

Over in Mobile, it seemed to be the opposite as the city of Mobile annexed parts of West Mobile as well as Tillmans Corner and Theodore under the auspice of offering "city services" when it was all a power grab to tack on city sales taxes on all of the retail establishments that has popped up in these areas.

[preguntas]

Land owners/developers and the exercise of private enterprise lead to the development of the retail centers in Baldwin County as they do in most places. It is not a coincidence that most of these centers came on line at the beginning of the Great Recession. Government does on run retail, thankfully. Taxes are taxes; it does not matter which end they come from.


Baldwin County's location predicts a fantastic future, as does Mobile's.

[PortCity]

Originally Posted by preguntas

Land owners/developers and the exercise of private enterprise lead to the development of the retail centers in Baldwin County as they do in most places. It is not a coincidence that most of these centers came on line at the beginning of the Great Recession. Government does on run retail, thankfully. Taxes are taxes; it does not matter which end they come from.


Baldwin County's location predicts a fantastic future, as does Mobile's.

I hope so preguntas it`s a shame to see such a nice shopping center
go to waste like that.

[bon_regis]

ESC never had a strong management team behind it. This center would have flourished in the hands of Bayer or even GGP.

[preguntas]

Originally Posted by bon_regis

ESC never had a strong management team behind it. This center would have flourished in the hands of Bayer or even GGP.

You are so right. Jeffery Bayer (and David Silverstein) have the magic touch. In addition to the Summits they have across the country beginning with the one in Birmingham, they have brought to life many seemingly dead retail centers to actually flourish.