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Old 03-12-2007, 01:21 PM
 
62 posts, read 461,305 times
Reputation: 36

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lehi View Post
I have since learned that Libby has issues with asbestos due to vermiculite mining. I'm not sure how serious this issue is but you might want to do more research before making Libby your home.
I won't disagree there was a vermiculite mine there. But alot of the "polution" people have in Libby now, isn't because the mine was so careless...sometimes it was the people...Gee, can't ever get away from blaming people.

Some residents recount that when Tom, Dick or Harry wanted some fill dirt to build up a "low spot" in their yard they would go to the mine and take dirt home.This fill dirt was the mine talings. This had vermiculite in it...Its still a mess regardless, but it wasn't all the mine's fault.

Then there was the asbestos from working the mines. This is a serious health risk of working the mine, just like coal mines, copper mines, etc.

I used to run cable for computers. We would have to go into basements with hot pipes wrapped with asbestos (great insulator) ... As long as it wasn't disturbed it wouldn't bother you. Yeah, right....but it is a hazard of the job.
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Old 03-12-2007, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Medford, Oregon
29 posts, read 156,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMontanan View Post

Am I starting to sound like the old man in the rocking chair, LOL. Montana does/did have winters. The last 10 years have had temps WAY above normal and WAY BELOW normal in moisture. Most forests haven't been "cleaned out" in close to 100 years, so its about time for Mother Nature to dry things up and clean house.

How many have read about the cleaning of the forest that happened between Idaho and Montana about 100 years ago? Talk about primitive, but necessary to have what you see today. The forests are getting old again...its almost 100 growth and need to be cleaned.
Either search on Fire 1910 or go here
http://www.missoulian.com/specials/1910/mountains.html (broken link)
We were just up there visiting your beautiful state, thinking of relocating and noticed the forests and the exact things you spoke of. We saw MANY MANY dead/dying trees and didn't really notice any signs of logging. We were up in fact off of Hwy 12 at the site of that 3 million acre fire from 100 years ago as well . Does Montana log to maintain healthy forests or just wait for the natural disasters? Just curious...
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Old 03-12-2007, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Kingman - Anaconda
1,552 posts, read 5,959,447 times
Reputation: 732
I would like to c another winter of 78 thats what its going to take to kill off the beetles before they destroy the trees any worse.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Libby
12 posts, read 270,521 times
Reputation: 34
Lehi...

Libby is fine...The mine has been closed for years and the EPA has made it so you can't even sneeze without being tested LOL...

It's a gorgeous place to live, the people are more than friendly, and I personally wouldn't live anywhere else...and I've traveled the world! I moved to Libby in 2000...but then...after my 1st husband, I don't scare easy!
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Old 03-13-2007, 04:49 PM
 
62 posts, read 461,305 times
Reputation: 36
Default Forest Management 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonready4change View Post
We were just up there visiting your beautiful state, thinking of relocating and noticed the forests and the exact things you spoke of. We saw MANY MANY dead/dying trees and didn't really notice any signs of logging. We were up in fact off of Hwy 12 at the site of that 3 million acre fire from 100 years ago as well . Does Montana log to maintain healthy forests or just wait for the natural disasters? Just curious...
Aren't the sick and dying trees terrible. Isn't it just sickening? That's mostly from pine bark beetle. Forestry and individuals have tried to bring back logging, even the "nonevasive" logging with helicopters. We can't allow fires to burn naturally because Tim Tycoon has his cabin smack dab in the middle of National Forest Land. We can't spray because someone living in the middle of the trees with asthema (sp.). Yes, WE WILL HAVE DISASTERS. I guess Mikey Million will be fine....he has insurance...but the forests will be devastated. The animals need natural burn and forests.

Our forest caretakers have also tried to tackle the problem with spraying ......BUTTTTTT......... we have those who have moved in and hug trees and create court fights ... so we can't log and Johnnie gets sick from the spray. So the Forest Service is pretty much stuck with their hands in the air. I guess they figure the "newbees" will get off their high horse and realize WE KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF FORESTS.

There is just too much litigation brought on by these people and groups that "keep the forests natural" who "know better than we." WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE SO MANY PROBLEM WITH FIRES IN CALIFORNIA? They didn't allow spraying or logging or couldn't have control burns because people "didn't want it."

Its getting bad really bad on 12. The beetle has taken twice the amount of trees it had the year before. Same thing is happening everywhere. Some people posting here have places between Whitehall and Butte. Everytime I go there I am just depressed about what is happening to that pass. You couldn't see the dead trees from the interstate a year ago. You could only see the devistation taking the backroad between the Butte and Whitehall. Just last week I was over the pass and it made me sick.

I'm not yelling at you, sorry if it seems that way. I am just feed up with newbees and environmental groups that know better than people who have been managing the land and forests for generations. With the 10 year drought, no management of the pine bark beetle, abstinence of logging on public lands and continual building in the forests we are going to loose the timber to fires.

If I need to put that into liberal Gorelapping terminology. If we don't get the timber industry back on mark, there will be a heck of a lot of smoke in the air and we will have erosion because there won't be any forest left to retain the dirt that has taken years to develop. This dirt will fill up our streams with mud and silt and kill off the trout population. The mud will build up and create new channels that will flood towns and villages.

The grizzly's won't have any more trout to eat before winter and will starve or not go into hibernation and break into Tommies house looking for food. Gee, maybe I should make a movie

Thanks for asking....it needs to be expressed !!! Thanks for noticing the plight of our conifer. We need to take back Montana away from "those who know better." Let your Sierra Club and the rest of the clubs tying us up in litigation KNOW they are killing our trees. What are they going to do when prepedia pupas or whatever reason they were keeping us out of the forest burns up in a forest fire. Amen. Thanks for asking.
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Old 03-13-2007, 05:58 PM
 
171 posts, read 1,004,102 times
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We have the same pine beetle issue in many areas of Idaho, with the Stanley basin being the most devastating to me. The Stanley Sawtooth backdrop is one of the most beautiful in the entire country (ok, I am a bit biasesd) and the dead trees in the area are absolutely sickening to me . We had a huge fire year in the area and unfortunately that is going to be what it takes to restore health to our forests. Many in the Treasure Valley (Boise) were irrate over the decision to let several of the fires burn. I am always surprised at how many people have never even noticed the dead pine beetle kill trees. Burnt orange is not healthy tree color. I will selfishly admit the best thing about fire season is spring morels!!!! I am sad everytime I hear about the widespread beetle damage.
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:07 PM
 
62 posts, read 461,305 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMontanan View Post
Thanks for asking....it needs to be expressed !!! Thanks for noticing the plight of our conifer. We need to take back Montana away from "those who know better." Let your Sierra Club and the rest of the clubs tying us up in litigation KNOW they are killing our trees. What are they going to do when prepedia pupas or whatever reason they were keeping us out of the forest burns up in a forest fire. Amen. Thanks for asking.
Here is an example of yellow journalism. Below his editorial are real Montanans whom explain much better than I that this thinking is killing our forests.
http://www.newwest.net/index.php/cit...ing/C396/L396/

Pray for our forests and may the monies be lost from these environmentalists. I hope that's not bashing....its only suppose to be an eye opener to what types of litigation and fine talking big money arses we are dealing with here in Montana.

When your done reading this do a search on Google (not this web page) on the Derby Fire 2006. This was a fire last year that could have been in a forest near you !!! For those of you with fast internet...there are pictures of animals burned before they could even move from their spot. When this guy talks about yes, thinning may help, lessen the intensity of the fire but fires aren't always intense....he is full of hogwash. The intensity of the Derby Fire was one of the hottest, if not the hottest. Gee do ya think thinning would have made this less intense. It doesn't take a wizard to know yes, it would have.
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:31 PM
 
62 posts, read 461,305 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahomama View Post
We have the same pine beetle issue in many areas of Idaho, with the Stanley basin being the most devastating to me. The Stanley Sawtooth backdrop is one of the most beautiful in the entire country (ok, I am a bit biasesd) and the dead trees in the area are absolutely sickening to me .
Noo!!!...I can't believe that!! How sad. I agree the Sawtooth is on my list of one of the most beautiful places an Earth. I haven't been there in a long time, when we came down there on our way to Reno...We take backroads. We get lost but me see gorgeous places.

It "was" gorgeous. That, fellow readers, happened in less than 10 years. I was there....it was beautiful. Oh how sad. How terrifically sad for you. We HAVE to take back OUR forests. I am so saddened by this. The proof's in the puddin. These idiots are allowed to linguistically denounce good practice. And they blame it on the drought, the bug, and the wind. Gee, they blame it on the perfect storm rather than looking at their own pile of S**T they've created. Mother Nature will fight back.....How hard she needs to do it to get these Yahoos straight doesn't matter. She will win.
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Old 03-13-2007, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Medford, Oregon
29 posts, read 156,777 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMontanan View Post
Here is an example of yellow journalism. Below his editorial are real Montanans whom explain much better than I that this thinking is killing our forests.
http://www.newwest.net/index.php/cit...ing/C396/L396/

Pray for our forests and may the monies be lost from these environmentalists. I hope that's not bashing....its only suppose to be an eye opener to what types of litigation and fine talking big money arses we are dealing with here in Montana.

When your done reading this do a search on Google (not this web page) on the Derby Fire 2006. This was a fire last year that could have been in a forest near you !!! For those of you with fast internet...there are pictures of animals burned before they could even move from their spot. When this guy talks about yes, thinning may help, lessen the intensity of the fire but fires aren't always intense....he is full of hogwash. The intensity of the Derby Fire was one of the hottest, if not the hottest. Gee do ya think thinning would have made this less intense. It doesn't take a wizard to know yes, it would have.
I completely understand where you are coming from. Mutter the word environmentalist to us NATIVE Oregonians and watch out! It is so maddening when people who just don't know what they are talking about, start talking. I cannot say I am fully knowledgeable in the practices of the US Forest Service, but at one time, when they were allowed to do their jobs, they had it down good. My Father-in-law just retired from the USFS as a civiculturist (sp?) from the USFS and was so frustrated by the time his retirement came. These people know who to produce AND maintain HEALTHY forests if people would just let them. I read the article you posted a link to. I am a firm believer that logging is a healthy forest practice. It has to be done, or you encounter the beetle problem and massive forest fires here in the West, along other things. Sorry to hear Montana is struggling with all the liberal views of logging and what makes a forest healthy. Take a look people, they aren't looking so good! Sadly, I don't think things are ever going to change back though We are still seriously considering a move to Helena and it's hard to hear the same thing we are trying to get out of, happening there in Montana. Hmph
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Old 03-13-2007, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 17,755,772 times
Reputation: 5511
Here's an example of how foolish people can be when it comes to managing forests. I was watching a documentary a few months ago and it included an interview with a young woman who had climbed up into a tree in order to protest logging activities. She explained to the reporter that the sap was coming from the tree because the tree was crying. That's just kindergarten talk and it was such a stupid statement that I was floored by how truly ignorant this young woman was. What is really upsetting is that we could deal with most of the problems in our forests if we would let experts on the subject give us advice instead of letting it get politicized.
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