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Old 03-13-2007, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Bitterroot Valley
152 posts, read 599,283 times
Reputation: 59

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMontanan View Post
This was a fire last year that could have been in a forest near you !!! For those of you with fast internet...there are pictures of animals burned before they could even move from their spot. When this guy talks about yes, thinning may help, lessen the intensity of the fire but fires aren't always intense....he is full of hogwash. The intensity of the Derby Fire was one of the hottest, if not the hottest. Gee do ya think thinning would have made this less intense. It doesn't take a wizard to know yes, it would have.
We have the same kind of issues here in No. California in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, esp. in the El Dorado Forest area- Lake Tahoe region, and others.

The d*** tree huggers won't allow forest thinning because some spotted owls and other varmints, etc. live in dead growth areas. Well, if you drive up to Tahoe with sunglasses on, all those thickets of trees no longer look green, just the dead ugly brown they are, interspersed with innocent live trees.

So every summer or so, we have major (house cleaning) fires that not only destroy the dead stuff (which could've opened up the earth to young growth-look mommy, I see sunshine) but they also destroy the healthy stuff because a hot firestrom has no concience.

Then the government has to spend more money to go in and replant what coulda been saved in the first place. It's not nice to PI** off Mother Nature

I absolutely don't support stripping large sections of forest, but I think one could justify removing dead and dying problem trees for the benefit of the forest overall- animals and humans included.
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Old 03-13-2007, 08:46 PM
 
75 posts, read 363,094 times
Reputation: 29
NativeMontanan said:

". . .If I need to put that into liberal Gorelapping terminology. . ."

". . .Then again maybe those days are gone. We are coming out of an ice age....or as the Gorelappers say Global Warming. . ."

What exactly do you mean by this? I tried to look them up online without success; I've never heard anybody except you use either of these terms.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:22 PM
 
62 posts, read 460,940 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliegrace View Post
NativeMontanan said:


What exactly do you mean by this? I tried to look them up online without success; I've never heard anybody except you use either of these terms.
People who seem to lick and lap whatever some people say. They don't do research or investigate...they just think it sounds right. Right now its the Global Warming thing. National Geographic last year had a cover with a forest fire burning. Splashed in text across the page was Global Warming. I agree the Earth is warming, but they blame forest fires and drought on a Global Warming. Intense Earth scalding forest fires are caused by mismanagement, not by global warming. I tend to listen to scientists without a cause rather than environmental off the wall scientists with a potential to make bucks off the Global thing. I don't know where this Heidi Cullen with The Weather Channel is going ...
The temperature of the Earth has been increasing a degree per year way before the industrial age. Since 1945 it got colder and then started warming again. To have this panic over a lunatic crazed on a cause that spends more than most on his electric bill drives me crazy. He justifies his "footprint" because he gives money to causes fighting the ill effects of global warming. Hello? Does that change the fact he is using more than his "footprint" allows. The world is going crazy. Hence Gorelapping, LOL. That was cool you searched the word before asking. That is cool.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:27 PM
 
62 posts, read 460,940 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMontanan View Post
Hence Gorelapping, LOL.
Gee, I could have made up a word AlGorelapping, but it sounds to scientific which he ain't. Algorelapping sounds too much like algorithm.... So I had to go with Gorelapping
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Helena, MT
373 posts, read 1,772,622 times
Reputation: 307
Visitors: Please know that not all native Montanans dismiss global warming. Some of us do believe in the scientific arguments regarding global warming. Even if we didn't, why wouldn't we want to err on the side of caution on an issue this big?

I do believe in forest thinning--big time! Montanans, generally speaking, are very pragmatic on the environment and conservation issues.

Last edited by lorelei2873; 03-13-2007 at 10:54 PM..
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Old 03-13-2007, 11:54 PM
G&G
 
Location: minnesota
25 posts, read 111,057 times
Reputation: 14
Default Wow!

I am reading these posts in dismay. We plan on moving to Montana soon. I have been "accused" on a post for being a stranger that will move in and change your way of things, about the only thing I want to change is the change! I am appauled that the way the forest industry wants to do things is being fought by tree huggers who move in, think they know better, and in turn are causing so much damage. Why do old rules change so quickly because a few groups of people start raising havoc? I VOW to fight these groups. It makes me utterly sick to hear how you cannot spray for such a damaging bug because a FEW people whine! I don't know, maybe I am not understanding.....but jeez! I remember when I was little they told us "acid rain" was going to get us all. Hmmmmm........
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:49 AM
 
62 posts, read 460,940 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by G&G View Post
I VOW to fight these groups. It makes me utterly sick to hear how you cannot spray for such a damaging bug because a FEW people whine! I don't know, maybe I am not understanding.....but jeez! I remember when I was little they told us "acid rain" was going to get us all. Hmmmmm........
Thank you....I believe we could use your help!
There have been many causes before that. Prohibition comes to mind. I don't agree with someone having wine and other alcohol daily/weekly, but that is that persons choice. If I decide different later than I would like to have the choice and not find out there is a LAW against it.

Montanans are pretty pacifist when it comes to politics, so it seems. Things just happen here and we wake up later. You should see the battle to get Jessica's Law....that is to support our children. Yet, people seem hesitant or don't even know its making its way through Legislation right now.

I could go to a city in Montana and ask what Bills are on the table with which they agree. 9 or 10 of 15 probably dont' understand what I am asking. That is how things get passed without a fight. I've observed a lot of Montanas don't really fight until you back them into a corner. Otherwise they let things go until they find out it affects them. I'm not sure this practice is different anywhere in the United States.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:08 AM
 
62 posts, read 460,940 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbcobrn View Post

I absolutely don't support stripping large sections of forest, but I think one could justify removing dead and dying problem trees for the benefit of the forest overall- animals and humans included.
I don't think anyone does....well, maybe the large corporate timber companies who own mountains of timber in Montana. Montana doesn't receive enough moisture a year to support that much new growth. It takes a long time to grow a tree in Montana at least native trees.

Responsible thinning can look nice, allow the spindles that grow in the forests now to become trees. I used to complain about the huge swatches taken out of the hills and mountains around Missoula. I say Missoula because that is the only place I would see this when I was an interstate driver and against the practice because it was ugly. It doesn't mean I am naive to the fact it happens everywhere.

There were irresponsible loggers just as there are irresponsible people in every profession. There are even irresponsible smokers. There are irresponsible drinkers. I don't like to SEE the side of a mountain after logging or thinning, but I know now it is necessary. What are my alternatives? A charred scalded ground? Where fawns caught in the fire are ashen statues?
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:53 AM
 
62 posts, read 460,940 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelei2873 View Post
Visitors: Please know that not all native Montanans dismiss global warming. Some of us do believe in the scientific arguments regarding global warming. Even if we didn't, why wouldn't we want to err on the side of caution on an issue this big?
Visitors: Please know that if we do not have a wet spring (drought) and we HAVE a devastating fire that attracts national media attention...The fire will be blamed on Global Warming. My word is to make others aware there ARE other factors...not only what some people term "Global Warming."

I don't even want to start a debate on Global Warming. Some believe in this, some don't. The Earth has been warming...200 years is not enough data; the data on which their thesis is based. The frenzy created by a few has created a stampede. If you would have been out here just a few days ago you would have thought we were reliving the days of the Dust Bowl.

Some things are good to change. No-till really helps. Its not that evasive of a practice. Anything to help conserve dirt, electricity, clean water is good. It doesn't hurt to make people aware of the way they waste....and give them not only knowledge, but tools to help curb this.

Here's an example....unrelated to CA outlawing incandesent light bulbs. We have ranchers/farmers who have water as a resource for irrigation. Many ditchrunners now take their job serious and don't allow the rancher to keep their ditches running when it runs over the road. We didn't cut out irrigation, we cut out some of the waste. The dtichrunner realizes his job IS important and the glutton irrigator realizes he must watch his fields better.

The Earth is warming, right now....I agree...it is a fact. I as a Montanan am not "dismissing" this. Our err on the side of caution has created the forests we have today. Whoops....I think some of us should have listened to the loggers and the Forest Service. Change usually makes things better...the loggers hopefully will come back with better practice. There aren't many independent loggers left, but the ones that can afford to get back in to the business with better tools than were available 35 years ago may help the forests that can still be saved.
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Old 03-14-2007, 10:17 AM
G&G
 
Location: minnesota
25 posts, read 111,057 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeMontanan View Post
Thank you....I believe we could use your help!
There have been many causes before that. Prohibition comes to mind. I don't agree with someone having wine and other alcohol daily/weekly, but that is that persons choice. If I decide different later than I would like to have the choice and not find out there is a LAW against it.

Montanans are pretty pacifist when it comes to politics, so it seems. Things just happen here and we wake up later. You should see the battle to get Jessica's Law....that is to support our children. Yet, people seem hesitant or don't even know its making its way through Legislation right now.

I could go to a city in Montana and ask what Bills are on the table with which they agree. 9 or 10 of 15 probably dont' understand what I am asking. That is how things get passed without a fight. I've observed a lot of Montanas don't really fight until you back them into a corner. Otherwise they let things go until they find out it affects them. I'm not sure this practice is different anywhere in the United States.
Yes, those things happen here in MN also. We call these groups "limosene liberals"...you know, those that do not have to worry about making a living and have nothing else to do but worry about if johnny has his helmet on when he's riding his bike, or the fact that they find the christmas tree at the capitol a form of discrimination. Those of us who have to actually work do not have the time it takes to fight for our ideas sometimes, but we all really NEED to try...you need to make yourselves aware of what is going on and stand up for what you believe in! VOTE and make yourselves heard!! Pretty soon we will not be able to enjoy a good steak beacause someone else has deemed it unhealthy
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