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It seems lately the inquiries about where to live, what's best for me and "I want to move to Montana" threads have been by a lot of folks from California who want to move because they are "sick" of Cali. Here's a perspective from a lifelong Montana girl....
You say you are sick of so much crime
My perspective....The more people who move here from high crime states, the more Montana will experience high crime.
You say you are sick of the heat
My perspective...Most people who move here from warm states do nothing but complain about the cold, snow and long winters and that's IF they hack it out and not move back to warmer weather.
You say you are sick of high taxes
My perspective...The more people who move in the more taxes are going to go up
You say you want "country life" "simple life" with mountains, streams, wildlife ect....
My perspective...The more people move in and build in sub-divisions or carve out our mountains for huge homes overlooking what us lifelongers struggle to keep, the more tension is going to build. Montana is a "sacrifice" state, meaning you don't live here without sacrificing something. We have numerous giant log homes high up on the mountainsides above my place sitting empty because the previous owners didn't take into consideration MONEY and WEATHER (for one previous owner). Meanwhile, the homes are on the market for years while we sacrifice a lot to stay living in this state. Very rarely can a local afford to live in one of these giant homes.
You say you don't want to change Montana
My perspective...Montana is going to change with so many wanting to move here for the "dream".
I'm not trying to persuade anyone from moving here, just please take the time to spend some time here before just packing up blindly and bringing the entire family here. Come during the coldest winter months, January and February. Try driving HWY 200 from Missoula all the way to Billings in January. Drive over more than one pass in January. Actually go to the schools you are inquiring about. I would no more leave the decision of what school my kids are going to go to up to a stranger on a forum than the man in the moon. Just do more than an inquiry before moving here.
It seems lately the inquiries about where to live, what's best for me and "I want to move to Montana" threads have been by a lot of folks from California who want to move because they are "sick" of Cali. Here's a perspective from a lifelong Montana girl....
You say you are sick of so much crime
My perspective....The more people who move here from high crime states, the more Montana will experience high crime.
You say you are sick of the heat
My perspective...Most people who move here from warm states do nothing but complain about the cold, snow and long winters and that's IF they hack it out and not move back to warmer weather.
You say you are sick of high taxes
My perspective...The more people who move in the more taxes are going to go up
You say you want "country life" "simple life" with mountains, streams, wildlife ect....
My perspective...The more people move in and build in sub-divisions or carve out our mountains for huge homes overlooking what us lifelongers struggle to keep, the more tension is going to build. Montana is a "sacrifice" state, meaning you don't live here without sacrificing something. We have numerous giant log homes high up on the mountainsides above my place sitting empty because the previous owners didn't take into consideration MONEY and WEATHER (for one previous owner). Meanwhile, the homes are on the market for years while we sacrifice a lot to stay living in this state. Very rarely can a local afford to live in one of these giant homes.
You say you don't want to change Montana
My perspective...Montana is going to change with so many wanting to move here for the "dream".
I'm not trying to persuade anyone from moving here, just please take the time to spend some time here before just packing up blindly and bringing the entire family here. Come during the coldest winter months, January and February. Try driving HWY 200 from Missoula all the way to Billings in January. Drive over more than one pass in January. Actually go to the schools you are inquiring about. I would no more leave the decision of what school my kids are going to go to up to a stranger on a forum than the man in the moon. Just do more than an inquiry before moving here.
I can't increase your reputation but you are absolutely right on this. The romantic view that so many people have of Montana is really unfortunate. A person needs to see the state for what it really is.
Good advice! I just echoed the same "come out for a week in January but not a ski resort" type of advice in another thread.
Only thing that I'd add is to remind everyone who gets upset with newcomers coming out and 'carving up' the land for their homes that we're all guilty of that. Whether we have a 1/2 acre lot and a 2,100 sq ft home in a brand new subdivision or our great grandparents homesteaded 1,600 acres and made a farm out of the wilderness the only difference between 'us' and 'newcomers' is where we choose to draw the line between It was fine when my family moved here and It's not fine now that your family wants to move here.
The latest newcomers destroy that peace and solitude for the old-timers just as the grandparents of the old-timers destroyed (to an arguably much greater degree) the peace and solitude of the Native Americans who were here before us. Heck most of the animals probably thought things were just peachy before they had humans chasing after them with spears and arrows so maybe they're the only ones who really have room to gripe. The same thing will be going on 50 and 100 years from now as our kids complain about all the newcomers coming in and destroying their peace and solitude. As long as people keep having babies that's just going to be the way of the world so while we should caution newcomers about what they might expect, blaming them for chopping down the next tree and not blaming ourselves for doing the same thing when we moved here is a little, shall we say, hypocritical? (and hey, full disclosure, I'm guilty of it too)
I have to agree with you Magoomafoo, but not just for Montana. That's true for many of the states on this forum. I lived in Hawaii for 30 years. And we constantly tell people on that forum - come and stay for a month - not a weeks' vacation. Drive in our horrific traffic, grocery shop and buy milk for $7 a gallon, live through a dock or airline strike and watch the shelves empty out. See if you can handle the humidity. Find out what it's like to live as a minority if you're white. (About 26% of the population is caucasian. Which isn't a bad thing... it's just what it is and everyone's related anyhow...) There are a lot of "realities" in places people dream about. I think you've just given great advice to every person on every city forum. We sit here on our computers on our little couches or desks dreaming about being "anywhere but here" and it's easy to miss reality. There's nothin' like getting off the couch and spending quality time wandering around your dream location. But that's what I love about this forum. We GET to ask and we GET to tell people what's what. Cool!
I kind of agree with the concept, but there are a lot of factors working against folks.
I've never had a job that paid me enough, and allowed me enough time, to go visit a place 3 or 4 times of the year for more than a couple weeks, just so I could check out the weather.
Most of the folks that post on here are unemployed and moving because of a job offer. Some have been unemployed for a long time. Figuring $5,000. or more to move, doesn't lend itself to visiting several times before moving. Sometimes they just have to take the plunge.
As far as the McMansion go, I don't imagine that there are a lot of folks posting on here, that build McMansions.
Progress usually hurts. As long as jobs go away, people retire early on a buyout, they are going to move. They lived and worked in a place that they absolutely had to just put up with, in hopes that someday they would realize their dream of living more remote, in a beautiful mountain setting. What better place than Montana?
Raw numbers tend to lie. If Montana boasts 4.5% unemployment rate, they don't look at individual counties, or towns. They immediately think, the whole state is at 4.5%. They also don't look at the fact that a lot of folks work two jobs. They look at a wage of $14. an hour and think, everybody else is doing it on that, so I should be able to. They don't realize that those folks are established, been around for a good number of years and have learned to live with very little.
I get the impression from most of the new threads wanting to move to Montana that they are generally concerned with the weather, employment, finding a place to live and last but not least, wanting to live in "peace in the mountains yet close to the convieniences of a larger city". Elkhunter is right to point out that our unemployment rate is not by county. As far as the "McMansions" go, that is what is really ticking locals off here in Lincoln. Huge homes have been built right in the middle of the mountainsides around here. When we look up at the mountainsides now, there is one great big huge eyesore now. It's depressing. They have every right to build but being outsiders moving in, I would think they would at least look at the negative impact it has on the local community. If they want to reside peacefully with locals, that is not the best plan of action.
What scares me the most is so many people from big cities want to move here, live in nature, away from big cities yet be close enough to enjoy the city life. I predict a decline in our Rocky Mountain front as more and more land developement continues with demand. Pretty soon, there will be no more "open" land before reaching the mountains. A way to picture it would be non-stop housing and subdivisions from Great Falls to the Rockies. Helena is well on its way to being non-stop housing in all directions. Between Helena and Townsend, there are so many subdivisions with empty foreclosed houses that it makes me sick everytime I drive by there. Great big homes on 10-20 acre "ranchettes" sitting empty. The land in these subdivisions are destroyed because the previous owners put 10 horses on 20 acres year round and the horses ate the root systems out. It's a dustbowl now.
We've seen the same thing down here. I can no longer keep count of the big homes that have been built and the first winter chased the residents out. However, a lot of them kept them and only use them for a month or so in the summer. A complete waste of land.
We had people wanting ranches to raise their horses. 20 acres will feed 20 horses, correct? Those folks were turned into the county extension and a move was made to stop that. It changes the eco system and drainage changes, which effects the land next to it. They were forced to get rid of the horses. One guy that has a little land out here, was bording horses and making some good coin. County got on him and now he is limited to the number of horses he has out on grass. He can have as many as he wants in stalls, but can only put a particular number to graze. People don't understand what horses do to grass. A cow chews grass off. A horse grabs grass and pulls it out of the ground. So it takes 3 times as much last to run horses as it does cows. Sheep are worse yet. That is why sheep herders are in such high demand. They keep the sheep movings so as not to ruin the land. Give it a chance to grow back, to replenish.
What's happening in your neck of the woods, is happening everywhere. Maybe not to the same degree, but it's still happening.
What really ticks me off is covenences. Some are good, some are bad. They have rules that you will build x number of square feet as a minimum. Ever seen one that said you'll build x number of feet as a maximum? There should be that limit. Right up the road from me lives a couple, no kids. 18,000 square foot house with three double garages. They are all by themselves until a week or two in the summer they entertain friends from somewhere. A lot of these areas have a minimum limit of 20 acres. But then they build a house, plant a garden and lawn around the house. Total it takes up about 300x300 ft. The rest of the 20 acres is grass and weed and untouched. A few will groom them but most don't.
To give you an example of what has and will continue to happen. My brother and I went in the Navy. While stationed in So Cal, he bought a house. He paid $118,000. for it. 8 years later his house was appraised at $750,000. If he sold it and come home, he would of course, want to build a new home to retire in. Although he came from here, worked many years here, because he was coming up here with California money he would never fit in. He would be chastised from day one and never be comfortable. Would he move because of the cold? Yup he would. He would move because of the cold attitude from everybody he encountered, not from the weather.
My aunt did the same thing in Cali. Bought a house for $80,000 way back in the day and sold it a few years ago for an obscene amount. It's crazy. I don't see that happening in Montana though, thank goodness in a sense as we would be getting a crazy influx of people moving in. I don't think small communities such as mine would adapt well. We have a hard enough time adapting to a family of five moving in. I can't believe the number of newcomers who "say" they want mountains and trees yet clearcut property to make room for horses. I have horses and mules but I can tell you that it is not a prerequisite to own a herd to live in Montana. I only keep enough horses around to do the job I need them for. I guess what upsets me the most with people wanting to move here is the "blind" approach most have towards the want to move. They are picturing bubbling creeks in back yards, a buck or two feeding there, peaceful horseback rides down a trail, community members with kind of a "stepford" atmosphere, corner markets and small town get togethers while still being able to go to the city whenever they want. A more realistic picture would be the creek flooding in the spring, that buck taking out his rut aggressions on your truck mirror, a very wild rodeo complete with manti packs flying through the air five miles up the trail, community members always watching your children because "they came from the big city and are far experienced" then local kids and you can bet that someone, sometime is going to get into a barfight over something so tiny it's laughed about in church the next day and that corner market does not carry much more than the basic essentials and that trip to the city (at least in my neck of the woods) involves a not so nice pass in the winter. There is not one place in Montana that offers everything Montana has to offer within a reasonable commute.
I kind of agree with the concept, but there are a lot of factors working against folks.
I've never had a job that paid me enough, and allowed me enough time, to go visit a place 3 or 4 times of the year for more than a couple weeks, just so I could check out the weather.
Most of the folks that post on here are unemployed and moving because of a job offer. Some have been unemployed for a long time. Figuring $5,000. or more to move, doesn't lend itself to visiting several times before moving. Sometimes they just have to take the plunge.
As far as the McMansion go, I don't imagine that there are a lot of folks posting on here, that build McMansions.
Progress usually hurts. As long as jobs go away, people retire early on a buyout, they are going to move. They lived and worked in a place that they absolutely had to just put up with, in hopes that someday they would realize their dream of living more remote, in a beautiful mountain setting. What better place than Montana?
Raw numbers tend to lie. If Montana boasts 4.5% unemployment rate, they don't look at individual counties, or towns. They immediately think, the whole state is at 4.5%. They also don't look at the fact that a lot of folks work two jobs. They look at a wage of $14. an hour and think, everybody else is doing it on that, so I should be able to. They don't realize that those folks are established, been around for a good number of years and have learned to live with very little.
Your last paragraph really rings true. That unemployment rate is misleading. If you to the reservations the number is likely going to be much higher than 4.5%. You are also right about people working more than one job. I know when I lived in Bozeman I had neighbors in my apartment complex that worked 3 jobs each just to make ends meet. That is a reality, especially in some of the more scenic and appealing places in the state. I think your point about living on very little is also important to note as well as magoomafoo's point about Montana being a "sacrifice state."
So true WyoEagle. Most folks wanting to move here because of low unemployment don't see the real picture. If the unemployment statistics were studied year round, they would see highs and lows during certain times of the year. Montana is known for it's seasonal work. Loggers are laid off for up to five months a year during the spring for break up. This in turn causes lumber mills and log truck drivers to be laid off as well. Places like Lowe's and Home Depot do not like to hire during break up as there is no certainty to when the lumber industry will pick up. A good point for out of staters wanting to move in would be be prepared for unemployment because something as small as an extra month of winter can make a big impact on finances. Ranchers are the same way. A long cold winter could be the difference between making it through the year or having to find another job to feed the family. Folks wanting to work in our parks might work full time for a longer season this year and work 1/4 of that next. We are very dependent on the weather here.
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Those folks were turned into the county extension and a move was made to stop that. It changes the eco system and drainage changes, which effects the land next to it. They were forced to get rid of the horses. One guy that has a little land out here, was bording horses and making some good coin. County got on him and now he is limited to the number of horses he has out on grass. He can have as many as he wants in stalls, but can only put a particular number to graze. People don't understand what horses do to grass. A cow chews grass off. A horse grabs grass and pulls it out of the ground. So it takes 3 times as much last to run horses as it does cows. Sheep are worse yet. That is why sheep herders are in such high demand. They keep the sheep movings so as not to ruin the land. Give it a chance to grow back, to replenish.
